Hero: SB. $160 stack. KJ. To the V's in the hand I am probably perceived as a LAG, although, that's not really how I was playing.

V1: MP. $80 stack. Sat down like an hour ago. Haven't really seen many hands, but based on the cover of the book and just the way he was betting, doesn't seem good. Maybe like a guy who over values his hand. His VPIP seemed high.

V2: BB. $500. Interesting player. Seemed to be kind of a thinking LAG. Although, he definitely gave no thought to preflop play. Calls all raises and limps often with super wide range. LAGy kind of play post, but more thoughtful. Seems to time his aggression fairly well from my eye.

Preflop: EP limps, V1 bets $7, Hero calls, V2 calls, EP folds.
Flop (P: $28): Kd6c8h c, c, V1 bets $20, Hero min raises to $40 (see why min?), V2 calls, V1 folds.
Turn (P: $128): A. Hero checks, V2 bets $75. Hero?


Why min? Because of these weird stack sizes, my plan was to isolate V1 who I felt comfortable I beat and was ready to call his +$33 if he ships, but at same time I didn't want to raise him all-in and have V2 come over the top, then I feel like I'm put into a tough spot given pot odds. In other words, if V2 pops it to my min, I feel comfortable folding. If I 3-4x, it makes it more difficult to muck it.

Pre is meh

Flop min raise is bad

Turn is easy call and see a river

R u paying attention to stack sizes here? Calling to 'see' river leaves me with $45 in a pot of $278.

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3-bet preflop with such a low open raise and isolate. Reraise more on the flop for value and protection.

Played as is and your description seems like he floated your weak flop raise and took advantage of the scare card A. You told the story of weak raise and then weakness with check, he almost had to bet. Tough spot now, if you have any read you could shove but he could easily have floated with an Ace.


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The flop min raise makes things weird. Bad players often respond to min raises weirdly and V2 can easily be drawing not realizing the short stacks mean he doesn't really have odds or floating despite V1 being committed with any part of this.

After the flop call you should have shoved into V2 on the turn. That puts a lot of pressure on V2 if he doesn't have a big hand and if he does call you have outs. As played you might as well shove now. Your second pair might still be good and you have the nut flush draw.

You have a 53 BB stack, flopped top pair good kicker and turned the nut flush draw with a pair.

I wouldn't minraise on the flop. That's pretty bad. With your stack size, you shouldn't worry about stacking off here if you are going to play the hand.

As played ... I wouldn't play it this way.

How does V cold call a $40 flop bet with an A here? How does the A help him? It helps you.

I'd ship.

+1


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No way villain is floating here with an A on a K high board and a cbet/raise in front of him; even if the min raise seems weak.




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Do you mind going into detail about why you think he floated?

I would rebuttal that by saying: Remember my read on him. He's a LAG yes, but not your typical clueless $1-3NL LAG. At least IMO, he was a 'thinking' LAG. If that's the case, how the heck is he floating a min bet to me who is short stack and lets not forget PR V is behind him who normally would at min flat? To me you have to be labeled, "drunk player", "bad LAG", or just "clueless NL player" to make such a call with air to bluff turn against to short stacks.

Maybe not. But with the description of him being super loose (calling anything preflop) and looking for spots to make a move I thought possible he floats against short stacks.


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Lol - Fair enough. I must be jaded from recent sick float suck-outs.


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Ok so a lot are saying I should have either 1) raised more flop or 2) pushed turn. That's helpful, but as played??

My thoughts as played were, smooth calling a min re-raise on dryish type board (only OESD), screams two pair. He calls a ton of preflop stuff, so he definitly has all two pairs in his range, maybe 66 or 88 as well. I was thinking former was more likely. Wasn't to worried about A, very little in his range were that would improve it. I really had him nailed for two pair....maybe low set, more likely two pair. If this is true, I am essentially calling to hit flush or maybe J or A, which mathematically would make this a fold.

Haha, we've all be there.

If you are really sure that villain is on two pair+ then yes, folding is the right play. Ace, king or jack might be an out depending on what villain has but it isn't sure. Villain bet enough on the turn that you can't get the odds on your flush.

Not a fan of flatting KJ OOP against a pf raiser w/ 27bb, especially knowing we're always also going to be OOP (both absolute & relative) to a LAG. When we flop TPGK, we're not exactly crushing the shorty's stackoff range, and as seen in this hand, we get into difficult spots when the LAG continues.

As played, can V2 ever show up with weaker Kx or OESDs here? If not, we have ~11-14 outs (unless we're against 66/88), which is not quite enough to call given effective stacks, but I kinda doubt this V is always nutted when he flats the flop minraise.

Cause poker players never lie.

^What do you think he smooth calls $40 against two short stacks here with? I think two pair on flop makes a lot of sense to me.

I doubt he has K8 or K6. I guess it's possible. If he has 86, he probably raises the flop, right? People play bottom two scared.

AK is also possible, I guess.

I'd fold preflop. We have to put in another 7.5% of effective stack against raiser (too large), OOP, and are very unlikely to have a dominating hand (and much more likely to be dominated). Our hand plays well multiway, but we're the first caller and the most this can go is 4ways (only if both BB and limper call), plus we'll be OOP. Meh.

We didn't play this hand to flop TP, especially against the raiser who has now bet a decent bet into the world. I check/fold the flop. Shortstack poker is all about kickers and our kicker sucks facing a typical raising range.

As played, action looks like probably only our flush outs (and some of those might even be dirty) are good on the turn. We're only getting about 2.5:1, so we'll need to make up at least 1.5 bets on the river just to breakeven, and we won't even have 0.5 bets left. I fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Dude has air and floated a minraise with the shortstack raiser/cbetter still to react behind him? He's doing this exactly never.

GcluelesshandreadingnoobG

It’s a good point on the 7.5% effective, however, I knew with almost certainty the V2 was calling because he plays so wide preflop and EP should be calling essentially a min-raise preflop 100% of time after I and BB completes, but I don’t think this player (who announced he was high when he sat down…lolz) realized how small the PF bet was. So In my mind, I was calling $6 in a likely $30 pot with 40% of the royal. Wasn’t worried about position given those odds.

This seems overly tight no? At least one call and feel out on turn? V2 could easily call too, then check, check on turn to V1 and I doubt he bets turn with worse than Kx. I didn’t have a whopping sample size, but like I said I thought his VPIP was high from the hour he played.

^

Not having position nor any guarantee that anyone else is coming along (noting that limper folded to lol ~minraise closing the action), I think tight is the best side to err on.

GimoG

You're ahead. The turn check after the min-click is basically telling the V you were just kidding with your TT/JJ and now you've given up. You're pretty much giving him carte blanche to take the pot at this point.

Ship the remaining moneyz with your strong equity in the hand.