2-3, 300-1000. V in utg has vpip over 60 with mixes of limps and raises. Co is unknown 50s white guy. 800 eff with both.

Hero in LJ with TdTc

Pre: utg and utg1 limp, hero 20, co and limpers call

Flop (85) : 533ssh
2 checks, hero 30 (bigger?), co and utg call

Turn (175) : Qc
Utg checks

I check here. We have range advantage but not nut advantage. Our actual hand is marginal and is very unlikely to improve. Better to try to get a cheap showdown and potentially bluff catch.

We’re also caught between two players. If CO bets and UTG c/r we easily fold.

Flop: Normally, I advocate for checking range when sandwiched between multiple players, but on this board our hand is likely good and needs so much protection. I think KK+ with a spade is ok with a check most of the time. KK+ without a spade should probably bet for value as there are more FDs. Betting small is an absolute mistake. We need to bet 66%+.

Turn: AP, we are in no man's land with the small bet. They could have floated with anything. If we bet larger on the flop we could rule out any random overcard floats. We need to check here and get to show down as cheaply as possible. It turns our hand face up but we can't do anything about that being sandwiched and having bet an amount that kept ranges wide.

I just overlimp preflop but that's me.

I'm fine with a flop cbet, could go more, but I don't think any huge deal.

I think in these spots the more vulnerable my hand is the more I lean to betting now as my last money going into the pot. So with TT, I'd probably lean to a bet (say $100ish) and then be done with it, mostly just to protect my equity in the pot when I'm ahead. With a much bigger pair (such as an overpair) there's slightly less reason to bet because we're much less vulnerable and will still have a much easier bluff catcher on the river (i.e. our AA is very rarely going to downgrade to worse but our TT often will).

GcluelessNLnoobG

With position I prefer to keep betting, rather than checking then tanking over a huge river bet. Gives us the option to pot control/check back the river.

Pre is obvious.

Flop I like a 1/3 sizing 4 way. No reason to inflate the pot. This way, you get value from worse pairs and draws and you put random overcard hands (the majority of our opponents’ ranges) into tough spots.

Turn is a clear check when the overcard comes and we’re still 3 ways. I don’t except either V to have a Q often, but we allow CO to start bluffing and we get more information about other Vs hand if he faces a bet from CO. We’re calling versus a CO bet, obviously. Then we evaluate rivers accordingly.




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Not sure why so many people here are saying that we need to check. We're behind 3x and 55, there's also a flush draw and a few straight draws out there too, we are likely ahead and our hand needs protection. I like the small flop bet, it keeps the pot manageable and allows you to get away cheaper if something crazy happens on the flop. It also allows them to make mistakes by calling with hands that should fold like 78/89/79/A8 and other bs. If you bet big on the flop, you're now in no mans land b/c there's a bunch of draws on the flop and when you get some callers the pot is going to be bloated making the turn harder to play

Since you made a smaller bet on the flop, you need to make a bigger one on the turn to try to clear out the bs that floated the flop and win the pot. I like something between $125-$150. A big bet creates clarity and defines ranges better. If you get raised you have an easy fold.

I think “need” is an overstatement. You know why poker is challenging and interesting? Because there are reasons for and against different actions at the same decision point. We need to weigh them and prioritize something. That’s why solvers will generate a “mix” of betting and checking this turn and why a bunch of smart poker enthusiasts on this forum (including you) will supply different answers.

I don’t think betting turn is wrong per se. There are certainly justifications for it. I would caution you not to overvalue “protection”. It should be considered but is typically the lowest priority variable in deciding when to bet behind value (getting worse hands to call) and bluffing (getting better hands to fold) - especially with only one street left. Your wording also seems to encourage a large turn bet to basically “find out where we’re at” which is not ideal.

I don’t believe a turn bet accomplishes a ton here. We have one middling pair. We can’t polarize. We have position and can control the pot size with a relatively weak holding. We avoid getting c/r bluffed which is more likely OTT than OTR. And we induce bluffs to catch OTR.

Reasons to bet. Reasons to check. I personally favour checking.

As played prefer turn bet. We should assume our hand is good until proven otherwise, flop bet was small and q is mostly a blank.

You're right, "need" is such a strong word here and rarely in poker do we need to do anything. What I'm trying to get at is that when you bet the flop small you'll get floated wider so you should plant to bet the turn and when you bet bigger on the flop you can get away with checking more on the turn b/c ranges have been narrowed more

When I advocate betting the turn, protection is just one of reasons but really, I think we're ahead and can get called by hands we beat like flush draws and PPs (66-99s). Our hand also benefits from a bit of protection as our villains can have a combined many outs against us. The Q is a relative blank so I think betting here makes all the sense in the world. Sure a c/r bluff is possible but this seems like a weird spot do it. The flop makes the most sense for a bluff raise by CO or c/r from UTG b/c it just looks super strong. On the turn it just looks kind of weird, not saying that it won't happen but I just don't think we get bluffed too often.

When we check we're just in a world of hurt. CO should bluff much since UTG is in the pot but we also can't be sure we're behind his value range so we need to call. What happens if CO bets and UTG calls, we're still kind of lost here. Let's say it gets checked through, there's still a bunch of bad cards on the river where we're just hating life.

I think when we bet small on the flop, we keep overcards in and allow more players in. And so the Q on the turn is not a blank. Any V can easily have that. And now if we bet big on the turn for value, I think that is too thin and we end up value-owning ourselves sometimes. We are not getting anymore value from 66-99 when 2 players called. The only hands we get value from are FDs that don't contain a Q. That's why I advocate a bigger flop bet to chase out overcard floats and try to get HU. Now if we are HU to the turn, and the offsuit Q comes, we can deem that more as a brick and go for more value and still get looked up by 66-99.

I just don't think the Q makes up a big part of their range. Let's look at it from COs perspective, you raised PF and he called, then he's facing a $30 flop bet with another 2 players left to act, he's not floating here with random bs b/c there's 2 players left behind him so hands like QJ/QT/Q9 are out unless he's got a flush draw to go with it. AQ/KQ is possible but they are also likely to be 3 bet some of the time making it less likely. From BBs perspective it's kind of the same reasoning. What hands that contain a Q is he overcalling with? Maybe AQ

I agree there's not a ton of value to be gained from 66-99 but there are flush draws out there, some gutters, and overcards. The combination of 2 opponents means you'll have to dodge quite a few cards on the river.

I would agree that it's less likely for BB to have a Q if we are heads up but I would say it's the opposite for CO. If you raise pf, CO calls pf and the blinds get out of the way, CO is more likely to float your flop bet w/a hand like QJ/QT/Q9 b/c 1) he doesn't need to worry about any one else so his hand is more likely to be good if he hits a q or 9 and 2) he's got position and this is a flop you miss a lot so he can float w/plans to take the pot away on the turn

Results: turn checks through, river Ax checks through, they both shake their head so we table and win.