Correction I believe he was OTB, my bad..There were several hands so it may be blurred in my memory a bit. I'm still concentrating on trying to remember action and hamds for later review.

If you can't make hands against a guy who never folds then you're going to struggle. You will struggle a lot more against anybody when you miss. You will struggle more from OOP. A reason you raise AK is it will hit way better than other hands.

Your question is sort of like asking why you win so much when you keep making the nuts. What happens when you keep raising AK, keep hitting the flop and this villain keeps paying you off with worse?

Your example also has you OOP which means you should play tighter after the flop. Usually you have position and can see turns and maybe even rivers against this player which increases the chances that you will make a pair.

And yes I realize AK can be awkward to play after the flop. If you're missing the flop a lot though then that just means you're getting unlucky.

He would also bet into his draws and even once a really weak flush, low gapped connectors on a Broadway board and he got lucky on the river. No one at the table could understand his play against a guy who was betting his Ace paired.

Some examples are:

Does he like to c-bet after raising PF?

Does he c-bet a lot in multiway pots, or only when its 2-3 players to the flop?

If he c-bets and gets called in a heads up pot, will he often barrel the turn? Or does he often just check? If his opponent bets the turn after he checks, does he usually fold?

How does he play his monster hands? Will he slowplay? Will be play them fast?

Have you seen him bluff when he makes a big bet on the turn or river? Some players don't bet big unless they have it. Some bet big when they are bluffing and bet small when they have it because they want a call. What are the tendencies of your opponent when it comes to stuff like this?

How does he play his draws? Will he play flush draws really aggressively on the flop or does he just call with them?

Does he c-bet bigger when he misses?

Some players bet small when they are scared and uncertain about their hand.

Does he like to steal when everybody checks to him?

How often does he double and triple barrel? Is he capable of trying a triple barrel?

Does he bet big on the flop on drawy boards when he has a great hand? Some players do this because they want all the draws to fold.

Etc.

The more of this stuff you know, the easier it is to read his hand and the easier it will be to play against him. Players that are really loose and aggressive are involved in so many hands that you should be able to pick up some good info on them. You can also pick up on PF tendencies as well, which is also very important.

Gotcha..Any pointers on keeping track of this in live play?

I mean widen you value betting ranges post flop. Solid pre-flop ranges are usually better in 1/2 live games, especially for beginners.

These. As you get more comfortable, it will be easier to play OOP. Don't sweat throwing away LP hands in EP. Play IP and let the pressure be on the other guy.

If you're raise to $x gets 3+ callers, then raise to $x+5, and keep adjusting until you get the number of callers you want (1 or 2 usually).

Play hands that make the nuts multiway. Axs in a game like that will pay off. JTs leaves you with a big payoff on the 789xx boards, but sweating the flush boards. I'd almost rather play JTo and know I've got to pitch it without at least the OESD.

While we like to be better decision makers, it ultimately comes down to the money. Be OK with folding/losing the small ones, and enjoy raking in the really big ones.

Swings are a part of the game. You can make the right decisions, get the money in good, and still walk away felted. Make sure you aren't playing with scared money, and keep getting it in good.

There are lots of good threads in this forum. Use the search feature, read the COTM threads (stickied this month, others searchable), check the other stickied thread for resource threads.

Post the start of a hand (no results) in a new thread. Explain your thought process, reads, stack sizes, etc. The discussion is usually valuable, includes debates on the merits of different choices. Reveal the next action the next day, after discussion on that point has been made. Explain why you made that decision, as well as the considerations made for other actions.

Why do you cbet so small in a 4 way pot with a flush draw? Bet 3/4s to 4/5s fo the pot, in order to make draws pay up.

Besides that, there's a crucial difference you haven't figured out about this villain. He's either a calling station who chases and bets big when he hits or he's a bit of a lag who does all of the above, but also bets when the board gets scary and he know it hasn't hit your range.

If he's the first type of player, you just cut down on bluffs, you value bet and you get out of the way when he shows strength.

If he's the second type of player, you have to suck it up and call big bets when the board get scary. You can also slowplay your big hands waiting for a big bet. Check call the hands that have showdown value. Try bluffing when you think the board got scary for him and you got nothing but air.

You also have to remember. When a dude plays 60% of his hands, his range is weak and the board connects weakly with him. because of this, these guys sometimes have to compensate but trying to steal pots. So, his weak range might give him an occasionally out of the blue great hand, but it will also give them a lot of crappy bottom pairs and busted draws that they would bluff with.

He was definitely the first type of player you described. Calling station that occasionally hit his draw. I tightened up against him but never seemed to connect. I got tired and at one point threw out a river donk bet on a hand I misread and thought I hit the straight. At that point it was time to leave for me. I know my time limits, right around 5 hours.

your games sound loose, passive and station-y... so you need to adjust your style to this. Yeah, raising pf with AK oop is 2+2 approved - but do you really need to do that?
Wouldn't you win more if you just limped, hit an A or K and took the stations to value town? Or how about a limp/3-bet? Limp/shove?

Playing ABC poker in lower limits will typically wins you the most - but when you play TAG oop against several LAG in position - you will often be put to the test. Because LAGs know that TAGs will not stack off with just one pair... until you do.

While it sounds like you're playing pretty well - it also sounds like you're playing very predictable poker. Either through your bet/bet/check or your bet sizing, or even maybe the frustration that's on your face when your AK hits nothing.

When you play against guys that have a read on you, you need to mix things up to teach them to respect you. Delayed c-bets, check/raises, overbets, underbluffs, etc. Yeah, fancy play can backfire and blow up in your face - but it can also put your Vs on notice that just because you check doesn't mean you don't have a hand - and just because you overbet doesn't mean you're bluffing. When you play a rote style at the same poker tables, the regs will pick up on this and exploit you. You need to show some variation in your playing to make regs understand that you know what they know... you know? Basically, approach poker like it's a game. Your opponents are trying to figure out what you're doing to win - and you must do things to throw them off. If you're going to try this, buy in short so you don't have as much to lose.

Two other things you'll need to do: learn how to hand-read better and read Tendler's "Mental Game of Poker." When you become a better hand reader (understanding board textures and ranges for you opponents) you'll be able to size your bets to influence the action you want (using pot odds).

I know this sounds like a lot of work - and the truth is, it is. But then again, you wouldn't simply complain that you can't win in tennis because your opponent is always hitting to your backhand, right? You'd have to work on you backhand... or take up an new hobby.

Whether you're playing a few hours a month or several hours a day, the game of poker has changed where today's bad player is much better than yesteryear's average player. There's so much free info out there that plays that used to be rare (e.g., c-bets, squeeze plays, 3-bet bluffing, etc.) today can be found in a typical 1/2 game.

Speaking of good free info... check out the "stickies" at the top of this forum section. There's a lot of really good info on hand reading, bet sizing, etc. that you can find. Also, start posting one very tough hand per session here and see what the brain trust thinks. The more feedback you get - the better you'll get at playing. Then, the better you get at playing, the more chips you'll win.

I actually did stack off during the session with JJ and won against 2 callers. I couldn't believe they had worse than JJ...lol

If he bets every single time you check you can sometimes call him down and win with A high. There's no need to bluff.

I'm gonna sound like a jerk and I don't mean to be but...
If I posted this on a golf forum what would the response be?

In the poker rooms I play in the avg player in the room is playing weekly. Half the room is regs and semi regs playing 4 or more days.

There are definitely things you can read and study away from the table but even bad players putting in 4x or more the hours than you are going to have an edge on you.

I attempted to play golf a number of years back I quit because although I liked it, I couldn't dedicate enough time to get to a level of play that I could enjoy.

I'm not saying don't play poker, I'm just saying if you aren't going to play often, what do you think you can do that will allow you to walk into a room full of people doing something significantly more often than you and be better than the majority of them?

Having said that, start out by not bluffing very much. Limit your bluffs to cbets and semi bluffs with lots of equity to fall back on. Learn to maximize value with your made hands and don't pay off your opponents when they rep strength on turns and rivers... They probably are strong.

If you do have the time to read and study it will help and for every hour you spend doing that you probably will have done it 3/4 of an hour more than the average player in your card room. But just like reading about golf without getting out to the driving range or golf course will have limited benefit, study as far as it goes needs practice too.

GL

I have read a lot in the past, I played a lot of hours of online poker for nickels over the past year. But online I always seem to loose cause I just can't pay attention amd always wind up looking at Asian porn... live play I usually win more often than lose and I tend to pay much more attention and am much more diciplined live than online. I do one $300 buy in amd when I lose it I'm done, when I hit 4 to 5 hours I leave regardless. I actually set a timer. I have been playing live on average once a week. I like live play more cause I like figuring people out and often pick up on some decent reads or tells from my 18 years in law enforcement. I really upped my game when I grasped the concept of odds and pot odds several years ago..now I'm trying to study up the card vaues vs specific ranges of hands..I always seem afraid to go to the showdown with anything less than 2 pair..

Every time you see his hand you will see what he did on multiple streets. I don't think there is any secret to it. When you get better at the game then weaknesses and mistakes are easier to spot.

Often these are the players I pay the most attention to because they are involved in so many hands, I get so many chances to study them and when I do get involved I'll likely battle it out with them.

But when someone mucks 90% of his losing hands???

^You still see stuff he did. Did he c-bet the flop heads up? Did he double barrel? Did he play almost every hand since you sat down? Does he play loose OOP? What are his bet sizes in certain spots? You should be able to pick up on patterns/tendencies.

And a lot of times when players fold you know they had nothing, or at the very least you often know what he didn't have.

And you also get to see some winning hands, especially with a player who is involved in pot after pot.

I don't usually need to see cards to have a good idea about how someone plays. Also, in Hold'em you do see cards. You see 5 out of 7 cards if it gets to the river. So it's not like we're seeing 0 out of 7 cards.

Edit: Also didn't you describe some tendencies of your opponents when you started this thread? So even if they were mucking a bunch of hands you still noticed some very useful stuff. You don't need to see a bunch of winning hands to notice that someone hates to fold after the flop.

Yeah I know..It seemed to be a everyone limp or everyone call the raise, flop bingo table, with 2 really sticky and aggressive big stacks.

Even without showdown you can draw conclusions as to his range when the winning hand is medium strength and the guy mucks at showdown. look what front door draws came in which ones bricked out.