Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
I'd be very interested to hear how the pro's are doing in today's games.
Did the games get harder? How much harder?
What are some standard win rates at 1/2, 1/3, 2/5, 5/10?
Are there more pro's now than a few years ago?
Are the non-pro regs really getting a lot better at the game?
To echo everyone else, the games are getting tougher, but not by much. The extent is market specific and ties into the 3rd question. Large metros such as Vegas, LA, and from what I hear to a lesser extent SFL have seen an increase in international grinders coming for their live cut. At first it was a 5/10+ issue, but now even the 100bb cap 5/5 games in my market have more and more Euros and South Americans in them. A few years ago there was a team of Brits backed by a single individual grinding the 5/10 Commerce games. Now, it seems like it's just more of self funded groups of two or three. All this to say, it's much more common to have a foreign pro or two at the table than a few years ago... pending where you are. Northern California for example, really doesn't seem to have this issue. I imagine if you're in a flyover state, the games are more or less the same. One constant that does seem to hold true everywhere is that higher stakes are disappearing. Many smaller places rarely get 5/10 going nowadays.
Win-rates, I think ~10bigs/hour is certainly crushing it but attainable for those who put the work in, especially in 1/3 and below. However, the slow pace of live poker & variance can make it tough to gauge. I certainly consider myself much more a student than a master. Over my past 2k hrs, I though I was crushing it, nearing 9bb/hr playing in the afternoons and evening. However, the most recent 500 hrs were BE and my rate dropped to about 7bb/hr. From what I gauge, the majority of winners in LLSNL aren't beating the game by much. A studious rec player, even one who puts in ~500 hrs/year won't have the study time or experience to go above $25/hr long term in my $5 blind games, but soft-ass 1/2 or 1/3 played during prime hours could yield more bb/hr given average rake... simply because people make an enormous amount of errors preflop & post. There's a certain high volume poaster with a solid sample & win-rate at 1/3 who plays extremely face-up & nitty. It seems that once you get to 2/5 and above, people play a bit tighter & spew/punt less, though other than learning to fold, they haven't picked up other tactics. Ed Miller's "The Course" covers this fairly well.