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TPTK on flop w/ 6 players TPTK on flop w/ 6 players

01-11-2023 , 01:07 AM
$1/2 NLH live in Texas, 9-handed. Just rebought for $200. Having been card dead, I've pretty much just been folding for over an hour straight, but lost one big pot (basically the only hand I've played) shortly prior to this.

Preflop: Hero is dealt AJo in the +2 position. UTG limps, +1 folds. Hero raises to $12. CO, BTN, SB, BB, limper all call. 6 to the flop.

Flop ($70): J84r. Blinds & limper check. Hero bets $35. CO folds. BTN raises to $135. Folds back to hero. Hero...?

More info: No specific reads on villain, but haven't seen him get out of line or anything. This game is pretty loose, but I'm also not expecting hands we beat to raise is here. Only draw is T9. We're losing to J8 and sets.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 01:21 AM
His raise with 2 players behind is pretty strong. Don’t think people are raising KJ here 6 ways so I fold and say something about AK never winning
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 03:00 AM
Pot is $240 , you have to invest remainder of your stack, but remember you already invested 25% of it , you have top top , what else are we hoping to hit here ? I would argue hitting the J is better than hitting the A , Never folding , ram jam get it in, if hes a better hand so Be it , that's just me and with $200 in this spot I'm just getting it in always , if we are $400 + behind then that's a diff story
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 04:51 AM
Not a fan of your sizing 6 ways on the flop. 1/2 pot is great oop heads up, but you put yourself in no mans land with it here. If you bet $55 and get raised I think its a pretty standard fold even though you are at 1/3 invested. If you bet $20 0r $25 you keep in more garbage hands from opponents but play a game where you are going to get sucked out on more often. Personally I lean to the smaller sizing oop. Your opponents are never folding a pair preflop in 1/2 for $12 so good chance someone has 44 or 88 6 ways.

I also think you can fold pre most of the time utg plus 2 with AJo. That hand, 22, and KQo OOP have more RIO for me personally than any other hands I play so have been folding them at most tables.

As played i hate giving low stakes nits my dollars. Unless i have seen looseness postflop with an opponents aggression in the past I probably fold and give villain credit for J4o at the worst. Ive seen some of your texas videos though and your opponents there seem to bluff you more and raise with more trash than anywhere else I have seen.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
His raise with 2 players behind is pretty strong. Don’t think people are raising KJ here 6 ways so I fold and say something about AK never winning
This was my thought too. The only hands I could imagine that might raise that we're still ahead of are KJ & T9, but even then, I'm not expecting either hand to raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adummmmm
Pot is $240 , you have to invest remainder of your stack, but remember you already invested 25% of it , you have top top , what else are we hoping to hit here ? I would argue hitting the J is better than hitting the A , Never folding , ram jam get it in, if hes a better hand so Be it , that's just me and with $200 in this spot I'm just getting it in always , if we are $400 + behind then that's a diff story
Yeah, I was either shipping it or folding, no in between. When I saw the flop, I felt really safe. But given his raise on such an incredibly dry board, I'm feeling like it's got to be a set or top 2 at worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
Not a fan of your sizing 6 ways on the flop. 1/2 pot is great oop heads up, but you put yourself in no mans land with it here. If you bet $55 and get raised I think its a pretty standard fold even though you are at 1/3 invested. If you bet $20 0r $25 you keep in more garbage hands from opponents but play a game where you are going to get sucked out on more often. Personally I lean to the smaller sizing oop. Your opponents are never folding a pair preflop in 1/2 for $12 so good chance someone has 44 or 88 6 ways.
Yeah, I think you're right. The 1/2 size is standard with how the games play here, but that doesn't mean it's strategically better. His raise sizing is also much larger than most opponents would have made it there, not that it changes too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
I also think you can fold pre most of the time utg plus 2 with AJo. That hand, 22, and KQo OOP have more RIO for me personally than any other hands I play so have been folding them at most tables.
I'll admit, I have not studied hand charts, and that's something I'm planning on doing a lot of this year as part of my studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
As played i hate giving low stakes nits my dollars. Unless i have seen looseness postflop with an opponents aggression in the past I probably fold and give villain credit for J4o at the worst. Ive seen some of your texas videos though and your opponents there seem to bluff you more and raise with more trash than anywhere else I have seen.
Yeah, I ended up folding here. I tried to goad him into showing, but he responded by saying that he thought I had nothing, and asked "AK?" So from that, it sounds like he was bluffing or overplaying a hand, which kinda sucks if we believe him. Considering he didn't show, I don't necessarily believe him.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuggieHoldem
This was my thought too. The only hands I could imagine that might raise that we're still ahead of are KJ & T9, but even then, I'm not expecting either hand to raise.



Yeah, I was either shipping it or folding, no in between. When I saw the flop, I felt really safe. But given his raise on such an incredibly dry board, I'm feeling like it's got to be a set or top 2 at worst.



Yeah, I think you're right. The 1/2 size is standard with how the games play here, but that doesn't mean it's strategically better. His raise sizing is also much larger than most opponents would have made it there, not that it changes too much.



I'll admit, I have not studied hand charts, and that's something I'm planning on doing a lot of this year as part of my studies.



Yeah, I ended up folding here. I tried to goad him into showing, but he responded by saying that he thought I had nothing, and asked "AK?" So from that, it sounds like he was bluffing or overplaying a hand, which kinda sucks if we believe him. Considering he didn't show, I don't necessarily believe him.
I never believe anyone who does not show unless you get them away from the table later. You can usually tell then if they are being forthcoming with what they are saying. Not everyone, but most people at these stakes will not lie about what they had away from the table in a 1/2 game.

I don’t study preflop charts. My preflop ranges move and change with the players that come to the table. Some nights I may only 3B top 5% of my range from the blinds or early. The other night I was 3B Q9s out of the sb for value vs a raise and 2 calls.. AJo, KQo, and 22 have caused me to lose more money than any other hands if I play them from the UTG or UTG+1 or UTG+2. Some tables they are fine to play, the loosest tables where guys are always aggressive behind you with AQ plus. Vs a table of nits just muck them. Vs a table who never 3B AK or AQ, I muck a lot. I probably muck those three hands from early position 90% of the time.

Also as a vlogger you can always ask show one time for the camera? Then tell him what you had if he obliges and you dont mind the table having that info on you. Having seen your vlogs you make some plays that are not the best, but you do something very well. You are extremely difficult to put on a hand or a range because of how loose and sticky you are. And I think that helps you get paid a lot where other people wouldnt. Or maybe its just a texas thing
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuggieHoldem
Yeah, I ended up folding here. I tried to goad him into showing, but he responded by saying that he thought I had nothing, and asked "AK?" So from that, it sounds like he was bluffing or overplaying a hand, which kinda sucks if we believe him. Considering he didn't show, I don't necessarily believe him.
This is a classic weak is strong, I would be happy with my fold after that. “I only raised cause I thought you were weak” etc
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
My preflop ranges move and change with the players that come to the table. Some nights I may only 3B top 5% of my range from the blinds or early.
Yeah, I wouldn't always raise this hand, but after seeing 93o and the like for over an hour straight, this hand felt like a godsend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
Also as a vlogger you can always ask show one time for the camera?
I have done this, but I wasn't recording this session unfortunately!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry the legend
Having seen your vlogs you make some plays that are not the best
Facts!
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-11-2023 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuggieHoldem
Yeah, I ended up folding here. I tried to goad him into showing, but he responded by saying that he thought I had nothing, and asked "AK?" So from that, it sounds like he was bluffing or overplaying a hand, which kinda sucks if we believe him. Considering he didn't show, I don't necessarily believe him.
If he says that without showing, 99% of the time he had a strong hand that wanted a call. Might have less to do with him trying to manipulate you into thinking you made a mistake than with him trying to manipulate himself into believing that he would have done the same with a bluff.

Not only is TPTK not a very strong hand 6-ways, you also don't have to win a lot of pots to show a profit if there's that much (dead) money in there.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-12-2023 , 04:23 AM
I'm pretty skeptical that we should fold at this spr without a read that villain is tight.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote
01-12-2023 , 06:49 PM
Barring reads that V is tight/nitty, I'm 99% sure I would have shoved here. This is about as good as it gets w/ AJ.
TPTK on flop w/ 6 players Quote

      
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