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TPTK on 3 Broadway flop TPTK on 3 Broadway flop

04-09-2021 , 06:25 PM
1/3 $275 effective

Just got to the table. I saw the V play 1 hand where he raised pre and bet all 3 streets. Didn’t see his hand.

OTTH

Hero button AQ

V cutoff limps
HJ limps
Hero raise to 15

V calls

Pot ($35)
Flop QJT rainbow
V check
Hero ?
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-09-2021 , 06:40 PM
This is a terribly ugly flop but it's terribly ugly for villains also. You could easily have AK and just be drawing them along no matter what they have.

Bet $20 on flop. If villain calls plan to check behind on all turns. Then evaluate the situation on the river. There are too many combos of actions and run outs to lay them all out but in general you want to play a small pot.

Your goal in this sort of situation is play your hand to be profitable across villain's entire range, which runs from hands that crush you to hands you crush. A big bet just folds out the hands you beat and gets called by the hands that beat you. A small bet doesn't fold anything but that includes a lot of hands drawing to beat you.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-09-2021 , 06:47 PM
$20 pre over two limps for me, just much more likely to successfully ISO.

I think I check, because so much of the stuff you want value from might well just c/r at which point you are in a bad spot, not knowing if he has 2p/straight or pair+O/E.

So I check flop and bet safe turns if checked to again.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-09-2021 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
This is a terribly ugly flop but it's terribly ugly for villains also. You could easily have AK and just be drawing them along no matter what they have.

Bet $20 on flop. If villain calls plan to check behind on all turns. Then evaluate the situation on the river. There are too many combos of actions and run outs to lay them all out but in general you want to play a small pot.

Your goal in this sort of situation is play your hand to be profitable across villain's entire range, which runs from hands that crush you to hands you crush. A big bet just folds out the hands you beat and gets called by the hands that beat you. A small bet doesn't fold anything but that includes a lot of hands drawing to beat you.
+1 except I would prefer a $15 bet. I like the rest of the logic. This just feels like a spot for a little pot control.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-10-2021 , 07:50 AM
There are quite a few broadway combos in out opponent L/C ranges, as well as smaller pps.
Mostly I'd X for pot control, willing to offer a free card w/TPTK with a GS, sometimes B/F $20.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-12-2021 , 02:20 PM
What kind of raise sizes can get called on this table? Is like $25 - $30 insane? Cuz with a $275 stack after two limpers, I would consider that sizing so that I can setup a comfortable stack off situation postflop with TP. A smaller raise size can create a much more uncomfortable situation (although at least we'll be in position which does help). This is one of the benefits I've come around to regarding BIing for $200 versus $300 (although obviously the latter method also has pros and cons too).

I probably lean to a check on the flop. The main reason is that I don't want to play for stacks having offered almost 20:1 IO preflop, and checking pretty much takes stacks out of play. This type of flop can also smash a limp/caller so we're kinda cool with evaluating the turn card and playing from there. We'd also hate to be check/raised off our nut draw.

ETA: The bet flop / check back turn is a fine plan too, imo. The only problem is that sometimes Villains won't let us do that, either by check/raising the flop or donking the turn. Which is why I now lean to checking the flop if I'm going for a pot control line.

GcluelessNLnoobG
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-12-2021 , 09:15 PM
I lean toward checking and peeling one off, and seeing what V does. Sure, V could have Kx and you're giving a free card to an OESD. But V could be looking to check raise and I would hate to be raised on this flop.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-13-2021 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
What kind of raise sizes can get called on this table? Is like $25 - $30 insane? Cuz with a $275 stack after two limpers, I would consider that sizing so that I can setup a comfortable stack off situation postflop with TP.

GcluelessNLnoobG
In this room I usually land between $15-$20. Occasionally I will be on a table where the raise size really doesn't seem to matter and I can go bigger?

Is flop SPR really a factor in our preflop raise sizing though?
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-13-2021 , 09:52 AM
Bigger pre with two limps in front of us, but thats nitpicking really.

C-betting 20 ish sounds good to me and go from there. Loads of worse hands to get value from.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-13-2021 , 10:21 AM
^^bigger pre isn't nit picking, it's a terrible mistake or leak imho to open so small over two limps.

as played 20 otf is fine, we have position here which is key (as well as a redraw).
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-13-2021 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdammon
Is flop SPR really a factor in our preflop raise sizing though?
For me, it is literally the only thing that matters, especially with stack sizes that we can accomplish desirable SPRs. With this type of stack size, we can often attempt to get in 10% of our stack HU with our TP type hands, and then if we hit we can comfortably commit the rest of stack (which at an SPR of <= 4 we'll likely be forced to do anyways, but we're cool with that thanks to giving such poor IO preflop).

At much bigger stack sizes, we won't be able to accomplish comfortable stackoff SPRs and so how we approach things will become a lot more open ended.

GcluelessNLnoobG
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-13-2021 , 03:40 PM
I'm almost always betting, lots and lots of stuff in their ranges that doesn't hit this flop that they fold, and also quite a lot of value from Kx and even Ax.

This is a classic, "don't let them realize their equity"
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote
04-15-2021 , 02:02 AM
This might be a case where suits matter. Were you suited? Did you have a backdoor flush draw? With a backdoor flush draw and a gutshot you can call a raise. Think about what queens you can have in this situation. This is actually the worst queen. Any other queen is either 2 pair or and open ended straight draw. So checking back is not bad.
TPTK on 3 Broadway flop Quote

      
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