1/3 NLHE, 9 handed.

Table is loose passive with one V mixed in who is TAG but will button click occasionally. He plays a solid game, VPIP/PFR/3 of about 20/12/5 understands odds, plays full time and is better than me, I don't think he's a TON better than me but he practices a lot and has done courses I think. He's trying to make a living from poker and goes to Vegas regularly. Nice guy. Main V has 580$ and is in BB.

H - is viewed by V as somewhat weak tight and thinking player, still learning the ropes, possibly sees me as scared money..he thinks I play two-card poker - as in I never have anything but premiums and I'm too nitty and face up. Its somewhat true. I'm overcalibrated for the loose passives and so 75% of my game is waiting for premiums and taking a bet-bet-bet line or just getting out with a x/fold when I miss. This is painfully obvious to someone like V who is playing at a level where x/raising and range merging is going on. Covers, HJ.

HH - I open 15 over one limp, only V calls behind, HU OOP I have KK, flop comes 9-7-2 ddh, I have Kd, I bet he calls, turn 9-7-2-6 ddhs, I bet he raises medium sizing I call (?), river 9-7-2-6-J ddhsd I check planning to call up to 1/2 pot maybe? He checks back and has 62s.

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Bad maniac opens UTG+1 to 10 (VPIPing 100% and calling off light post), I 3-bet T T in HJ to 40, SB calls, V calls in BB (unusual for him to just call out of the blinds and to call 3-bets in general, he wouldn't do this with anything premium, his range here would be a lot of SCs, S1Gs, and small PPs), maniac calls. 4 ways.

Aside - stacks to the flop are SB: 450, Main V BB: 540, PFO Maniac: like 800, I cover.

Flop 160 - 9 6 3

Checks to me and I c-bet 120 (is this too ambitious? how are you sizing here? are you checking through?), only main V calls.

Turn 400 - 7

V checks, I check back

River 400 - 5

V bets 400, leaves some crumbs behind, when I start talking to him he says nothing and stares blank at the board. Hero?

I only tend to skim read the background stuff but I'm seeing "TAG" and I'm also seeing "62s" and something doesn't add up.

On the preflop play this is slightly different to cold calling a 3bet as there's already a cold caller in front of him so he's getting a bit of a price. The range you assign seems a bit off though...what do you think he's doing with, say, JJ-88 and suited Broadways...cold 4betting from OOP? It's probably a stronger range than you suggest.

On the other hand...62s though.

Anyhow. Thread title first, set mining would be really bad, you're in HJ with TT against a "bad maniac" open, anything less than a 3bet would be terrible. I like your 4x sizing as well given maniac status and your premium hand.

963 is a fairly safe flop, with AA-KK I would be much more inclined to check back, you are somewhat vulnerable to overcards so I quite like a bet but don't go 3/4 multiway. Be aware of the possibility of someone having QQ-JJ.

River this is a flush, 98, 87 or nothing. The problem is, what nothing calls the flop? Is this ever a thin value bet with QQ? Or was your preflop read correct and somehow he called the flop with 76 or 65?

With a heart I would be tempted to call.

Pretty sure I'm cool with the whole hand (perhaps an argument our flop bet is too large? and I don't think flatting preflop would be criminal but that's me) and then I'm done with it when the BB continues on the flop and the board runs out where every single draw gets there.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I would cbet less, and easily fold the river. If it's not a flush, it's def a straight. I don't think we stand a chance here and he doesn't sound like the type to bluff.

I'd bet 80 on the flop instead to keep calling ranges a bit wider and since the board is so dynamic.

I'd continue to bet small on the turn.

I'd be inclined to call the river for a variety of reasons.

1. He views you as weak tight i.e. you will fold a lot of hands on a board and run out like this. and your line also looks very weak/capped.

2. he left crumbs behind rather than going all in

3. He cold calls a 3bet from the bb w/ a hand that has a 4 or 8? idk.

4. There are many natural bluffs and this is a spot people can over bluff fairly easily.

The problem is I can't think of one single hand that coldcalls a 3bet AND calls a big bet on the flop (4ways, with one other V to act after him), that we still beat now. Not even one hand.

It's not only a 4 or 8, he has all the sets (hero bet 120 into 160 otf after 3betting to 4x pre so hero's hand looks like an over pair to him (which he expects hero to call the river with) and he probably didn't feel a reason to raise his sets) he also has AKh in his range that he didn't wanna 4bet pre. Without knowing if he's even ever bluffed before in his life, it's hard to justify a call there btjmoc.

If he's good enough to value bet all his sets then that's fair.

id be alot more inclined to call if hes last to act otf. (regardless of his pre range, its pretty hard for him to float here with one still to act with something w BDs, even more so when you bet huge)

flop sizing doesnt really seem right to me 4 ways. i kind of think we want him to bluff with something like TT / JJ so probably just fold your hand. i think checking flop is prob best

Everything got there. He called a large flop bet, now you hope he has what, AQ? Seems like an easy fold.

Should I have barrelled turn?

I think the probability that anyone would call your 120 on the flop with anything that you beat after the flush comes in is remarkably low.

Result:

That was my first thought before I realized that there's also a flush and there should be all kinds of suited broadways and Axs in his range.

If villain views hero as weak tight, he probably doesn't think you have many sets or flushes in your range after you 3bet pre. Especially not after you check back the turn. If I was villain I would value bet everything on the river that beats AA.

I have a hard time finding many hands in his range that call the flop and would have to bluff the river. Maybe he calls spades with two overs but you block AT/JT. 3 combos each of A9s/A6s and some J9s? The more of those somewhat connected suited combos we give him, the more two pairs and straights are in his range though.

1 liner to a 4, 1 liner to an 8, flush got there. Betting pot with a set on the river is too thin. Villain's hand looks more like 54s after showing a 5c, not 6c5c. Wow would betting two pair for pot be some disrespectful value here.

Depends how many 4x and 8x you think HJ has when he 3bets an UTG maniac I guess.

In my view it wouldn't be enough where it would stop me from value betting two pair+

It's not just that. It is about what calls you that you actually beat. There is a small chance your beat before you bet, but if you aren't getting called by worse, why are you betting? And you could bet smaller than pot to maybe get called from the type of hand that hero has.

Yeah depends on how I view villain in that regard as well and how they interpret my bet. Most people will view it as very polar i.e. flushes or 8x or nothing so will end up calling with hands like overpairs here which is why I like to bet these spots thinner.

4 ways and you bet 3/4 pot. 4 people in it. Checking is much better. There's times when people have JJ or QQ and they only call a 3 bet. You don't even have a guaranteed best pair at this point. They have all of the sets here. The turn really makes the board bad for you so by checking through you'd get a feeling for how this hand is. I'd really move on from it quickly.