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Tough spot OOP with top pair Tough spot OOP with top pair

07-19-2022 , 04:58 PM
Hero (1220): Hyper aggressive image. Had make some moves during the session and people may think im playing kind of reckless. Bought in for 300 and grind it up to 1200 in 2 hours.
Villain (2000): Looks like he doesnt play poker very regularly, but he knows abc poker. Doesnt bluff much from what ive seen. Doesnt 3bet much, unless he has an overpair.

OTH
MP player raises to 30, Villain calls on the hijack, 1 more random player calls on the button. Im on SB and raise to 140 with AsJc trying to squeeze. MP calls and Villain calls.

Flop (460) AcKs6h

Hero c bets 230. MP folds and Villain calls quickly.

Turn (920): 7s
Hero decides to be careful and checks, villain thinks for a moment and bets out 400. Hero?

Villain is not a creative player. He has commented before that he thinks im way to aggro, but I havent seen him bluff much. Im really leaning on thinking that he has AK, AQ and he is value betting. I dont see sense on him beting Kx on this hand or a lower A.

Opinions?
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-19-2022 , 05:55 PM
I would have bet the turn. As played, I don't think you can fold getting over 3:1 on the turn. The villain could think you're FOS.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-19-2022 , 06:17 PM
You said:
* He knows ABC poker
* He doesn't bluff much. I assume this especially means that he won't bluff raise.
* He strongly thinks that you are too aggressive.

This combo means that you absolutely must bet the turn. ABC poker says that you call down light against an overaggressive player, so he will gladly call you with worse aces and probably good kings. If he raises, you can fold without concern.

However, by checking, you have "told" him that you were just c-betting air on the flop. He very likely thinks his weak ace is good, though I agree he would check behind all kings and worse. But even a weak unimaginative ABC player might find the courage to bluff after an "overaggressive" player made his usual c-bet and then checked. So I think you have to call down, though it is close.

He really shouldn't have AK here, since he only called and called preflop. That's not to say he couldn't -- lots of weak players only call preflop with AK.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-19-2022 , 07:56 PM
I want to say this hand goes into the bucket of "fold pre."

Squeezing 3 players from the SB with AJo just seems waaaaay too loose; it's not a hand you want to play OOP in a potentially multi-way pot. It's even worse when you're so deep. I'd even mostly fold AJo to MP open. BTN or CO open I would mix 3-bet fold.

Once we get to the flop with this hand, it's hard to say what the optimal decision is when we don't know your actual squeezing range other than it being significantly looser than any pre-flop chart would suggest.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-19-2022 , 10:43 PM
Noob perspective:

What are the stakes here? 2/5? 5/10? 2/5 with a straddle? Just having a hard time figuring out what sort of game has a standard open to 30 (or is this unusually large?) when you bought in 300.

Pre-flop I think is just a fold for me. AJo is super borderline, may even be behind the MP opening range and HJ calling range. Add the button to the mix and that's a lot of players to get a 3-bet through and/or have to play out of position with a hand that is almost certainly worse than (and possibly dominated by) any hand that is calling said 3-bet.

On the flop I could play this as either a c-bet or a check/call with 2 opponents behind. Sizing is fine.

Checking turn makes sense. Facing the bet, I would also conclude that he would check back Kx and possibly a worse Ax.

Honestly, though, I don't really understand his line. If he's reacting to your aggro style and thinks you have nothing, why would he bet here instead of allowing you to bluff river? In other words, any value hand that he has that's worse than yours (AT, let's say), is really just a bluff catcher, so why would he bet?
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-19-2022 , 11:12 PM
Call turn as played. Consider block bet on river.

Pre squeeze is a little light.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-20-2022 , 02:00 AM
Check shove turn or fold pre.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-20-2022 , 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Check shove turn or fold pre.
lul, pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
But mostly just fold pre.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-20-2022 , 06:22 AM
Since there seems to be a consensus to fold pre, I wonder if someone wants to eleborate a bit. I feel like a call is an option as well, even from SB since our Ace will be good a fair amount of the time.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-20-2022 , 10:37 AM
fold pre/squeeze depends solely on the MP's range. If he's tight, I would fold. If he's average, it's a great squeeze opportunity, we block AK, aces and jacks too. I would fold before flatting, I would almost never flat there which is the worst option.

As played it's an easy fold, but I woulda cbet less there instead of further inflating a pot we're happy to take down at SD.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-20-2022 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilt4Deception
Since there seems to be a consensus to fold pre, I wonder if someone wants to eleborate a bit. I feel like a call is an option as well, even from SB since our Ace will be good a fair amount of the time.
Absolutely not - AJo plays awful out of position and multi-way, and if we call we have both those factors working against us.

AJo is a 100% fold pre to MP open and 2 callers. It can mix 3-bet or fold against a LP open, but honestly probably fine to still fold 100% in live low stakes. Live recs' opening ranges are often much tighter than solved ranges (because they tend to limp in with weaker playable hands and only open with very strong hands), and once they do open-raise they're very rarely folding to a 3-bet. AJo OOP is just not a good 3-bet candidate.

BTN vs CO open is potentially the only spot in live low stakes where I might consider 3-betting AJo.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-21-2022 , 11:39 AM
I've heard more than 3 different answers on how to proceed the turn (bet small, check raise, bet/fold) so im really confused on how to proceed. What I think is that my sizing on the flop should have been smaller (about 1/3 of the pot) to have more room to manuever the turn and river.

The fold pre sounds too tight for me. Are we not ever squeezing Ax on this situation (even without position) ? What would be the range for an effective squeeze play then without premium holdings?
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-21-2022 , 11:41 AM
Btw, we are playing 5-10. I bought in short because we also play a mix of crazy pineapple some times and people call anything pre flop in this particular game so you just have to wait for AAx, KKx, QQx, AKx and you double up pretty fast. In hold em people play a little tighter here so squeeze is viable

Anyways if someone wants to see the result of the hand I will leave it here:

Spoiler:

I decided to check raise all in on the turn and got instant called by AK.

I know this is probably just a spew against that particular player. But I could have avoided this situation by betting smaller flop, small turn and then evaluate river. Maybe fold pre is an option as most of you say

Last edited by luz4ggro; 07-21-2022 at 11:46 AM.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote
07-23-2022 , 05:51 PM
Why did you shove the turn if you think he has AK/AQ? He's facing a $500 raise into a $2,200 pot. He's only folding bluffs.

That villain over calls a 3-bet preflop and then calls on that flop, I think we're beat; but with a perceived hyperaggressive image, maybe he has enough Ax-suited type hands to just gii on the turn. He did close the action on the flop against someone he verbally called crazy.
Tough spot OOP with top pair Quote

      
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