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Tough River Decision Tough River Decision

08-09-2010 , 12:16 AM
Starting Stacks:
(Game 1/2 NL)

Hero: 145
Small Blind: 350
Big Blind: 60

Several Limpers, Hero Limps on button with JQ
Big Blind Checks

Flop: K 6 4
Small Blind bets $6, BB calls, everyone else folds, Hero Calls.

Turn: K647
SB bets 22, BB calls, Hero Calls

River: K64710
SB asks how much Hero is playing, SB Pushes all in
BB Calls
Decision on Hero

Background Information:
Have played with SB before, Seems to be an above average player. Plays a lot of hands once he has gathered chips.

BB is not very good, pretty straightforward, put him on a pair, if most 2 pair

Hero is a tight player. Most of the table knows hero is a tight player, including SB.

My question is what else could he show here other than the ace high flush. The small bet on the flop made me believe he was on a draw. The 7 on the turn would have completed an open straight draw and the SB will play those types of hands especially out of the SB. By me having the both the J and Q of spades, the best I am hoping for is the Ten high flush. I would think my call on the turn would make the SB believe I had a flush, maybe the Ace high flush draw. When the river blanks I don't think he makes such a large bet without the nuts because of my tight image.

Any thoughts would be appreciated...
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08-09-2010 , 12:30 AM
A straight, a set, or a smaller flush you have the 2nd nuts and you´re only 75bbs deep if you were playing with 300bbs behind it might be different.

And no your call does not represent a flush it represents a a hand like KX with a spade.
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08-09-2010 , 12:34 AM
Yeah I snap call this and if he has the nuts then I just yell "F**K!" really loudly before promptly moving on.
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08-09-2010 , 12:42 AM
i'd have a tough time folding the second nuts here with a 75bb starting stack to anyone except the nitiest of nits. Based on your description of the player and the fact that your hand is fairly under repped i'd be snap calling here and be expecting to have the best hand the vast majority of the time. Your call on the turn doesn't tell your opponent that you have a Q high flush so i would be expecting him to bet plenty of smaller flushes and maybe any straight for value on the river. Is my thinking wrong here? Be interested to here others opinions on this.
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08-09-2010 , 01:06 AM
note that this is poorly played all way thru...

as played, call.
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08-09-2010 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallfish69
i'd have a tough time folding the second nuts here with a 75bb starting stack to anyone except the nitiest of nits. Based on your description of the player and the fact that your hand is fairly under repped i'd be snap calling here and be expecting to have the best hand the vast majority of the time. Your call on the turn doesn't tell your opponent that you have a Q high flush so i would be expecting him to bet plenty of smaller flushes and maybe any straight for value on the river. Is my thinking wrong here? Be interested to here others opinions on this.
I agree completely esp. that the call is far easier with our stack size.
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08-09-2010 , 02:38 AM
Think you can call this fairly quickly, and the SB will inevitably say "I didn't think you had it" (the flush).
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08-09-2010 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljay3
My question is what else could he show here other than the ace high flush.
Huh? He calls with all flushes and he may even be hero-ing with worse, snap river imo
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08-10-2010 , 03:03 PM
I agree that with my stack I have to call. I call and player shows A spades 2 spades
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08-10-2010 , 03:49 PM
Try not to be results-oriented. Don't think twice and snap-call. You'll be good a ton of the time. You should never be folding this hand given the stack sizes.
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08-10-2010 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
note that this is poorly played all way thru...

as played, call.
How should it have been played? I think it's okay until the turn. I'd raise the turn so that As7, or full house draws have to pay. If you're beat it's a cooler. Just focus on the next hand.
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08-10-2010 , 04:23 PM
I thought OP played hand fine. Could raise preflop w/QJs but can limp, depending on table. Turn decision of call/raise is maybe-ish, you have 2nd nuts and are getting bet into, why raise? You can't be afraid of lone A hitting flush on river with this betting IMO.

Given description of SB by OP I don't see him shoving allin on river with a T high flush.
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08-10-2010 , 05:43 PM
I considered raising the turn, but I also figured he was going to fire again on the river. At that point I would push and he would be committed to calling. If he fires 40 on river, I push and just get a cooler. The open push on the river was what made me pause. He has to put me on something when i smooth call him twice as he knows i'm a tight player. If he puts me on a two pair type of hand I think he would value bet as I'm probably not calling my whole stack on the river with that type of hand with a flush out there.
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08-10-2010 , 06:17 PM
After the turn there is about $94 in the pot and we have $115 left right?

I don't feel that great about it but I almost always call here for only 75bb. Villain can easily be shoving a lower flush for value.

Also, I'm fine with the way hero played the hand on every street (on the turn the pot is already big enough relative to stacks such that we will easily be able to get stacks in by the river so flat calling will ensure we don't scare away worse hands and will give our opponents a chance to bluff the river).

My advice is to stop making the second nuts at the same time as your opponent makes the stone cold nuts.

Seriously though, sometimes we get hit by a cold deck and if we start playing the same spot differently then we will be leaking money long term.
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08-10-2010 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raveman210
Try not to be results-oriented. Don't think twice and snap-call. You'll be good a ton of the time. You should never be folding this hand given the stack sizes.
This and for people that just say"This is played poorly all the way thru or whatever" Don't be lazy and just criticize. If you see something wrong take a minute and note what should've been done or at least what you would've done.

For me hand is fine except raise the turn about $66. Then you have around $70 on the river for easy call or shove if checked to. I still call the river though unless I have a further read on villain.
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