1/3 NLHE, the game often plays quite deep (max buy-in $1000)

Villain (SB, deep, covers hero): sees a lot of flops and likes to gamble but he is no dum-dum. He knows the game and isn't going to just give his money away. He is here to play poker though, as opposed to making money. I have no idea if he is a long-run winner or not.

Hero (MP: about $800) has been playing for a few hours and has seen virtually no flops. He thinks he may have played with villain before but isn't sure. Has a feeling villain might be a bit tricky, if it's who he thinks. Hero has no idea if villain remembers him. If he does he will know that tonight is no exception, hero usually plays very few hands.

Hero opens for $10 AsQh in MP
All fold except villain who calls in SB

Flop: Jh7h5s (pot $23)

Villain checks
Hero bets $15
Villain calls

Right now villain's range is very wide. He could have called PF with any remotely playable hand and probably some more besides.
I had noticed a lot of Paint-x type junk being played around the table that night, but I couldn’t remember if villain liked that type of hand or not.

Turn Qs (pot $53)
Villain checks
Hero bets $40
Villain calls

I think this call does narrow villain's range some. He certainly has either a draw or some type of showdown value, although that could be as little as a 7.

River 4c (pot $133)

Villain checks
Hero bets $70
Villain raises to $350

The best read I could pick up was that, when he picked up his chips and chucked them in, he seemed quite pleased with the amount he'd decided to bet. I don't know if that helps any of you guys. It didn't help me at all. I looked at him for a bit longer, while I was trying to figure out what to do, but I simply couldn't decide if he seemed any different from normal. To be honest my main thought was that I regretted betting the river now.

Should hero have bet the river?
Should he call?

Yeah, I bet the river all day here.

I guess I fold here tho. The only thing you beat is a bluff/he's telling you he can bet TPTK by his river raise.

Ok this hand looks like a draw to me from the start, either a fd or a sd like with 68o. sd arrived on river fd did not.

U are betting river for value but what is going to call u really that u can beat? AJ maybe KJ that`s about it. River raise is rarely a bluff. U were betting three streets (including preflop) so u look strong enough. I dont think u are ever good here

You probably should have checked back on river if Villain is somewhat competent as u mentioned

Your line seems fine to me as played. Fold river. He may have flopped a set, but the straight draw seems more likely the way he called down. I don't see how this could be a bluff, though, and his re-raise says he can beat the board.

did u guys read the V description? okay against standard fish river is a value bet maybe a little bit less like between 50 -60 but against this V he will gain nothing because he will fold almost all worse hands and just call or raise with better hands.

bet like $90-$100 on river

need more reads to evaluate river

does he bluff a lot? how aggro is he exactly?

default play here would be to fold but heart draw did brick on river so he could potentially be bluffing. if he picked up a straight draw on the turn (KT or T9 maybe w/ 1 heart could have floated you) that also bricked. is he likely to float with those kinds of hands?

+1.

Against this villain u are never gets three streets of value.

I would have checked river with the line u choose.

I actually prefer a check on the flop.

He will peel any J, GS, FD and most pocket pairs.

Very weird table; everyone is deep and yet a $10 raise gets this HU? A $10 raise would be extremely lucky to limit the field to 6 players in my normal 1/3 game where most stacks are <= $300. Odd. Anyways, I guess the raise limited the field so I suppose you know your table.

If villain is super tricky / aggro, I might check behind and consider calling down with A high. Otherwise, my normal play here would be to cbet.

Even though we are nowhere near pot committed with a bet, I like checking behind here against aggro opponents. If they happen to be on a draw, their draw will rarely come in, so they'll be bluffing the river lots; so I check to bluffcatch the river. Against a more ABC player I would bet/fold.

As played, I also bet the river and fold to the raise. 86 did get there and it's possible we were behind the whole time.

GcluelessNLnoobG

River is a clear bet/fold.

Why so small pre?

how do you figure that?

Ok tell me which pp is going to call here?

tell me which hand besides AJ and maybe KJ is going to call here.

he will fold every other hand if not tell me a hand he would call with?


AND: AJ and KJ c/c on flop and turn VERY unlikely with this V

What is so special about this Villain that he wouldn't make it to the river and call with a hand like A7, 88, 99, A5, 76, or 56 especially if he puts Hero on AK. Hero's read on Villain is sketchy at best. Nonetheless, after Villain calls the turn I'm probably checking behind on the river, unless I'm prepared to bet/fold.

OP said Villain is no dum-dum maybe even a long time winner and it is deep stack pocker. usually players are a little bit better in deep stack than the average 1/2 (100bb max)

PPs like 88 or 99 will probably lead or even raise this flop and no I don`t see him calling with A7, A5, 76 or 56 unless he is a total fish. If he is a total fish then yes bet/fold this river but I think a little bit less than 70

chinned said we never get 3 streets of value from this villain

you just listed hands that he calls with. so we do sometimes get 3 streets of value from him.

is KQhh folding river? if QThh folding river? even Q9hh could find a call if this villain is bad enough.

88-99 is not leading or raising this flop. if he is with those hands, hes making a huge mistake.

OP said villain isnt stupid but he also said villain likes to gamble rather than "play poker". he also never said villain is maybe a long term winner, he said he has no idea.

I would still here ur opinion what he is calling with that we beat

there is a raise from MP to 10 and they are heads up. why should this be a huge mistake?

I had the same thought...until I realized that Hero holds the Q

i told you in my last post?

KQ/QT/Q9/AJ/KJ

even though we have Q the villain still could have floated flop with KQ and QT with backdoor straight draw and potentially K or T for backdoor flush.

villain is described as "tricky", and on the flop OP says "Right now villain's range is very wide" so floats are certainly not out of the question. even if they were, AJ/KJ is still calling sometimes here.

Duke, what do u think this player is putting us on?

We are a tight playing triple barrel bluffing?

We look like at worse we have AJ so u really think this villain will call with worse on river?

Also I doubt very much he is QT, Q9 from the small blind.

read is that he likes to see a lot of flops so QT and Q9 is definitely in his range

idk what hes putting us on. players like this dont range opponents well. so maybe he puts us on a weaker queen, a jack, or maybe doesnt range us at all.

I hear what you are saying duke. I think we agree in principle. U think V is bad loose passive.

I interpret OP as saying this guy is loose but tricky thinking player.

Either way OP I think everyone agrees river is a fold. Hope u don't have results. But if you do make sure u use the information in future hands.

I check the river back. AJ KJ and TJ are probably all folding to a river bet. The only thing I see calling that you can beat is KQ and pooossibly a QT if he's dumb. get to SD and take a mental note of how he plays hand. As played I'm folding.

I have a strong feeling he had QJ here. ( if he showed )

Thanks all. It is reassuring that everyone agrees fold to the check-raise. I must have been a little on tilt though because as I folded I said "I don't think you are bad enough to try bluffing here". I am a little embarrassed I said that now (almost didn't admit to it). Maybe that is why the hand stuck in my mind. Villain kind of shrugged and showed 85. I think at least one was a heart, possibly both but I'm not sure. I'd have preferred it if he hadn't shown really.
I still don't think I ever call that river C/R. In truth I am a great target for a player who wants to run that bluff. It just kind of bothers me that they might realise it. Stupidly speaking up when I folded didn't help on that score.

Obviously this is a bluff monkey! I am checking back river all day