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Topping Up Topping Up

08-22-2019 , 10:17 AM
I see many players top off their stack when it gets just a little low. Example: you're in a 1-2 NL game, you started with $300 and now have $150.

Do you automatically reload to get you stack back to the max ? Are there certain conditions that would have to be met ?

My short stacked play is OK, but I wonder what , if any, criteria other players use when deciding to top up. On line it's very common, but what about live ?
08-22-2019 , 10:34 AM
SplitSuit has a recent video on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EfirfCUb2s

Not sure if I'm allowed to post that, please don't ban me if I'm not.
08-22-2019 , 10:42 AM
I usually top up right away, especially if it's a <150bb cap. With the smaller cap, even losing a medium pot makes you short enough that you have to drastically adjust your preflop strategy. Not being able to play certain hands profitably anymore probably means you're winning less than you could be.

When I buy in I'll get some larger chips and keep them in my pocket so I can top up instantly whenever I want.

I might wait a few hands if I'm in early position and there are strong players at the table. You may as well wait for your button.
08-22-2019 , 10:45 AM
I at least top off when I'm around 50%, usually a little before that. So, in a 1/2 that has a $300 buyin, I'm normally topping off at $200, but definitely at $150.

Most people have their own reasons, but I dislike short stacking and absolutely hate the idea of ripping it, holding, and ending up below my starting stack.
08-22-2019 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel
I usually top up right away, especially if it's a <150bb cap. With the smaller cap, even losing a medium pot makes you short enough that you have to drastically adjust your preflop strategy. Not being able to play certain hands profitably anymore probably means you're winning less than you could be.
In such case, your answer is actually it depends.

If other people especially bad players are short, then it really doesn't matter whether to top off or not.
08-22-2019 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel
When I buy in I'll get some larger chips and keep them in my pocket so I can top up instantly whenever I want.
That seems rather strange.
What's to keep you from taking a few large chips off the table after you've won a huge pot? Pretty sure that's not allowed?

Is having chips in your pockets even allowed?
Could easily place you in a difficult situation.
08-22-2019 , 10:59 AM
Standard for players to carry extra chips in the pocket.

-Rebuying above max buy-in.
-Carrying chips from previous cashout.

Plus casinos can't stop you from buying more chips and why would they?

Going south or north is a separate issue. Plus how are you going to stop someone from going south even if you don't allow buying chips not in the game?
08-22-2019 , 11:06 AM
It looks odd if you obsessively top up small amounts every hand. It makes you look like a grinder waiting for a chance to jump on somebody, which isn't a good image. But you don't want to let your stack get too short either. I generally keep some of whatever the biggest chip regularly used in the game is and top up one chip whenever I'm down that much. That usually works out to around 10% of max stack size, which seems a good point to top up.

If I lose a large pot I may wait a hand or two before chipping up. If I lose half or more of my stack there is no point in trying to be a little subtle and just count out the top up right then.

The obvious exception being if your already deeper then everybody else. In which case it doesn't matter. I would still top up occasionally because I don't want to be in the position of topping up as soon as somebody double up and gets a big stack.
08-22-2019 , 11:17 AM
Why are you buying in for the amount you are? Is it just "standard" or do you have specific aims in mind? Do you want to cover the fish? Do you feel you have better ranges for 150BB than your opponents? Are you buying in short to gain an advantage when large stacks have to account for each other?

Figure out the optimum number of BBs you want given the characteristics of your table and top up to hit that target. I'd say top up when you're 20bigs below optimum to avoid looking too obsessive.
08-22-2019 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray
In such case, your answer is actually it depends.

If other people especially bad players are short, then it really doesn't matter whether to top off or not.
Even if you cover everyone else it still matters (Especially the shorter the cap is). Let's say it's a 300 cap, you drop down to 150, but then stack someone else with 150 and now you're at 300 again.

Now someone sits down with 300 and stacks someone for 150 and they're at 450.

If you had topped up in the first place, you'd be 450 effective, but instead you're stuck at 300. Not to mention you may want to change tables, and most rooms let you (force you) to take your entire stack with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
That seems rather strange.
What's to keep you from taking a few large chips off the table after you've won a huge pot? Pretty sure that's not allowed?

Is having chips in your pockets even allowed?
Could easily place you in a difficult situation.
It hasn't been a problem at any casino I've played in. Having chips in your pocket isn't unusual, it's common to color up rather than cash out if you are leaving a table but not leaving the casino yet.

What's stopping you taking large chips off is that there's a rule against it. If you try, you might get away with it, but you might get caught and punished too.
08-22-2019 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel
Even if you cover everyone else it still matters (Especially the shorter the cap is). Let's say it's a 300 cap, you drop down to 150, but then stack someone else with 150 and now you're at 300 again.

Now someone sits down with 300 and stacks someone for 150 and they're at 450.

If you had topped up in the first place, you'd be 450 effective, but instead you're stuck at 300.
Ya but I was merely pointing out what you said below:

Quote:
With the smaller cap, even losing a medium pot makes you short enough that you have to drastically adjust your preflop strategy. Not being able to play certain hands profitably anymore probably means you're winning less than you could be.
Topping off $150 more to $300 while everyone else sits on $150 doesn't negate the fact that you still have to adjust your preflop strategy.
08-22-2019 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
I'd say top up when you're 20bigs below optimum to avoid looking too obsessive.
+1

And I usually keep a pocket full of green for just that occasion.
08-22-2019 , 11:39 AM
I used to top off to our then maximum BI of $300 (100bbs) after every single hand in my 1/3 NL game (I simply keep a bunch of red chips in my coat pocket to do this).

I now top off to 66bbs ($200) after every single hand.

I've changed my top off method because even though I still believe I have an advantage over my opponents at 100bbs, I believe I have a much bigger advantage over my opponents at 66bbs. 100bbs can be a difficult stack to play, especially with TP type hands in multiway raised pots with difficult / nonABC players. It's also not as a big an advantage as it once was playing a "bigger" stack where lots of opponents would hurp durp off with lol holdings in multiway limped pots; IO have gone down against the field overall, which lessens the benefits of having a large stack. Whereas a 66bb stack is much easier to play, plus takes huge advantage of a couple of big leaks most opponents have (which is way too loose and way too aggressive preflop).

Basically, just do your best to do an honest evaluation of yourself compared to your opponents. Are you sitting in a game where there are lots of morans who are getting in big money postflop in lol cases? If so, your IO are probably pretty good and you may want to consider sitting deeper. But if your opponents aren't completely moronic relative to your skill level, you may want to consider sitting shorter (especially if they are way too loose / aggro preflop due to ego but play okish postflop).

ETA: Regarding looking grinderish topping up after every hand, I highly doubt too many people are shaking in their boots as I top up to a whopping 66bbs. And can easily be laughed off as OCD or something if questioned. Also don't think this is nearly as much a concern in today's environment where most everyone at the table is a day-in-day-out reg (might have been more of a concern in yesteryear regarding making sure to keep a non-intimidating environment for noobish players, but this isn't nearly as applicable nowaday). IMO.

Gplaytoyourwheelhouseandyourrelativeabilitycompare dtoyouropponents,imoG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 08-22-2019 at 11:46 AM.
08-22-2019 , 11:44 AM
What's the etiquette for putting chips from your pocket onto the table?
Do you ask/tell/show the dealer?
08-22-2019 , 11:49 AM
I simply plop them on my stack without saying anything (obviously only doing this between hands and never when I'm in the middle of a hand). As long as you aren't going north of the maximum BI (or going south) there are no rules being broken so everything is still very much on the up-and-up.

GcluelesstoppingupnoobG
08-22-2019 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
That seems rather strange.
What's to keep you from taking a few large chips off the table after you've won a huge pot? Pretty sure that's not allowed?

Is having chips in your pockets even allowed?
Could easily place you in a difficult situation.
Wow...

"Is having chips in your pockets even allowed?"

Yes... It is.

You going to require players to empty their pockets before they are dealt in?

Last edited by Garick; 08-22-2019 at 12:54 PM. Reason: removed over-reaction
08-22-2019 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelloman
I see many players top off their stack when it gets just a little low. Example: you're in a 1-2 NL game, you started with $300 and now have $150.

Do you automatically reload to get you stack back to the max ? Are there certain conditions that would have to be met ?

My short stacked play is OK, but I wonder what , if any, criteria other players use when deciding to top up. On line it's very common, but what about live ?
If your stack goes from $300 to $150, it went more than just a little low. That's a lot low. Most serious players would probably top off when they drop from $300 to $250 or somewhere around there.
08-22-2019 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
If your stack goes from $300 to $150, it went more than just a little low. That's a lot low. Most serious players would probably top off when they drop from $300 to $250 or somewhere around there.
^This

I personally buy more than max buyin before sitting down. If I drop even $10, I am topping up without hesitation.
08-22-2019 , 04:16 PM
I buy in for $500 and top up at $400 or less. I don't want to be fiddling with chips the whole time.
08-22-2019 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelloman
I see many players top off their stack when it gets just a little low. Example: you're in a 1-2 NL game, you started with $300 and now have $150.

Do you automatically reload to get you stack back to the max ? Are there certain conditions that would have to be met ?

My short stacked play is OK, but I wonder what , if any, criteria other players use when deciding to top up. On line it's very common, but what about live ?
i'm usually trying to cover the person with the most money that i think is bad. if they have 150, then i wouldn't bother topping off. if they have 600, then i'm topping off to 300 and attempting to go north to get more money on the table - discretely, of course.
08-22-2019 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
and attempting to go north to get more money on the table
This is flat out cheating.

Do you also encourage card marking, attempting to sneak a peak at opponents cards, collusion, etc.?

Gincrediblylame,imoG
08-22-2019 , 06:06 PM
I'll usually have 200 in greens in my pocket. I'll top off when I drop $25 or more. If the blinds are coming up, I'll wait until I'm on the button.

I just put the green up front and have never been challenged about it.
08-22-2019 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
What's the etiquette for putting chips from your pocket onto the table?
Do you ask/tell/show the dealer?
I never start a hand without being fully stacked (table max buy in). I keep green and black chips in my pocket and I quickly top off before the next hand if I fall below table max. No one usually sees, but if someone were to question me, it's all within the rules.
08-22-2019 , 06:58 PM
My local 1/2 game is $500 max but I generally buy in for $400. Most players buy in for $100-$300 although a handful buy in for max as well. I top up anytime I get below $300 in this game. If it's particularly deep stacked and juicy (as it often is) I will top up all the way to $500.
08-22-2019 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinzFTW
^This

I personally buy more than max buyin before sitting down. If I drop even $10, I am topping up without hesitation.
That's totally legal but also bad for the game in general. Recs want to play with guys who are goofing around just like them, not guys who are so super serious that they put another red on their stack every time they pay the blind and drop $5-$10 below max buy in. You may not think they notice but they do. They make comments about things like that when the player doing it walks away.

You can be a serious player and not make it appear as if every single dollar is so important to you.
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