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Top two pair on flop Top two pair on flop

06-28-2015 , 09:42 AM
1-2 9 handed. Both villains have a stack of c.400-450. I'm little over 500

dont't have any particular read on villains unfortunately. They havent been out of line for the past hour or so

Straddle to 4 on UTG. I have As Kc on UTG+2. I raise to 14. Got 5 callers including villain 1 on my left and villain 2 on CO.

Flop (70) Ad Kd 9c

One or two people in front of me check. I bet 55

Villain 1 tanks about 30 sec and calls.

Villain 2 doesnt take that long (maybe 15 sec) and re raises to 150

Hero?

Thought process: dont think v1 slowplays a set there. I put him on Flush draw, possibly with a hand like j-9, j-10 or maybe no flush draw but A-9

I think Villain 2 either has FD or a set

Thoughts?
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06-28-2015 , 10:26 AM
3-bet to $325; if there wasn't a FD on the flop, then I would flat.

Pre needs to be bigger. With a $4 straddle on, I'd go $20.
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06-28-2015 , 10:39 AM
Demographics on V's (age, gender, ethnicity, dress, etc) please.

Bigger pre, please, OP. $14 is a normal open for an unstraddled pot.

Bigger OTF too. You have top-two on a FD board mega-multi way. Don't set a good price for FDs and do charge the hell out of the weak-sauce aces that 1/2 V's always call with.

AP, you block AA and KK, and they almost always re-raise pre anyway. You're only hand you're really worried about is 99. OTOH, with the A and the K being the FD cards, there's very little pair+FD available (9dTd, 9d8d, maybe Qd9d) and only a couple FD + gutshot combos. There are also a couple of chops and worse two pair (A9s) in his range.

Never folding for a half-pot bet here, and given how deep we are, not thrilled about letting V1 draw for cheap, so I guess I could 3-bet. Really though, I think there's more value in flatting. V1 also has some weaker aces in his range and might be tempted to come along, given his pot odds.

I call and re-eval turn. On a diamond, I'm c/f. If it is a blank, I'm likely checking to evaluate, and soul reading, but usually calling. Obviously getting it in if our 4-outer hits.
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06-28-2015 , 12:58 PM
Villain 1: 45-50 year old white male. Dress casual smart, jeans shirt. Villain 2: 25-30 year old white male. Dress a bit more casual, t-shirt and jeans. Really have no good reads either of them. They both limp call (rarely limp fold) from time to time but also open frequently. They both won some large pots at showdown, also lost/muck some

What would you do if you call for 150, a non diamond hits and villain 2 shoves? (Not saying this is what happened just want to hear your rationale for flatting OTT. Will post results after some more feedback)
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06-29-2015 , 07:44 PM
I play 1/2 live mainly and that not long. For me it's perfect to play for stacks at the flop. If turn not a diamond hits I call his shove. I would call flop or shove it. Problem is you got no broking range postflop read. There are some guys in my casino where a raise means 99% set... Also it's deepstack poker so my advice isn't the best. 100bb deep it's easy stack off I think
Top two pair on flop Quote
06-29-2015 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by celine_20200
Villain 1: 45-50 year old white male. Dress casual smart, jeans shirt. Villain 2: 25-30 year old white male. Dress a bit more casual, t-shirt and jeans. Really have no good reads either of them. They both limp call (rarely limp fold) from time to time but also open frequently. They both won some large pots at showdown, also lost/muck some

What would you do if you call for 150, a non diamond hits and villain 2 shoves? (Not saying this is what happened just want to hear your rationale for flatting OTT. Will post results after some more feedback)
What I typically see from those limp/callers - are Ax hands - also in raising range from V are flush draws , set 9 , and A9 - so I think getting money in is ev+?!
Top two pair on flop Quote
06-29-2015 , 09:46 PM
I would shove for sure here, there are a lot more hands you beat (that your opponent can hold) than hands that beat you. If V holds:

AA, KK are not really possible because V would almost never flat with them preflop when there is a lit of callers already!

99 is possible, but it's really the only hand I am scared of here. And even if V got lucky with 99, you still have outs to hit a full house on the turn or river (4 outs x 2 (because you shoved and will see both cards for sure) = 8 total outs).

Flush draws and straight draws, they are really probable here on a multiway cheap pot and you need to make them pay to draw. Shove is our best option.

Tops pairs and 2 pairs that you beat/or chop, there is also a good chance and your best move would be to go all-in again.

Any other hands are possible because you have to give V a % of bluffs.
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06-30-2015 , 09:55 AM
I would shove. So easy for them to have draws or AX or A9 -- maybe even K9. Definitely more pre. I don't mind the flop size as played.
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06-30-2015 , 10:05 AM
I'm cool with getting it in on flop given your reads on V1 having a draw. We don't really want to HAVE to fold turn with a small SPR when a scare card hits, and there are several. If V2 has 99 oh well, we still have some equity and I think his range is wide enough with combo draws and 9dXd that we are well ahead.
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06-30-2015 , 10:39 AM
An argument can be made for calling IP, but OOP I am definitely GII. I would tank for an extended amount of time and cram. The board is way too draw heavy and you only lose to 99 (and still have 4 outs). glgl
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