Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river

03-03-2024 , 05:48 AM
1/3 nl. Hero has $200 eff. Villain appears to be a rec fish but not much is known.

Hero has AcQh UTG. Hero raises to $12. Villain in UTG+2 calls. Five callers total. Pot is about $65

Flop:
Qs 8s 4d

Hero bets $20. Villain calls, everyone else folds. Pot is $105

Turn:
8c

Now I consider checking for pot control as I’m slightly worried about Villain having an 8, but I still want to get max value from worse queens and flush draws, so I decide to bet $35. Villain calls. Pot is $175

River:
3d

Now I could check to pot control or induce a bluff from a missed flush. But I still think I can get value from a worse queen, so I bet $40. Now villain raises to $80.

Is there any way you fold here? It looks ridiculously strong but it’s $40 more to win like $300. I know it’s a simple situation but I feel like this spot is indicative of like 90% of the hands that I struggle with.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-03-2024 , 09:02 AM
At 1/2, a river raise is the nuts the vast majority of the time. You bet low to see if you could get a loose call. The villain is doing the same thing. Next time, either bet more or check. Mostly check.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-03-2024 , 09:40 AM
Never folding river getting those odds.

Play seems fine TBH. I would never bet so small IP to open up the action again, but OOP the block bet sizing is probably finebecause you are likely to face a bet anyways. If you lose, you are losing the minimum.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-04-2024 , 07:32 AM
Well anyway, the guy had pocket AAs. Unbelievable. Slowplayed it the whole way, had no fear of an 8, no fear of me getting there by the river with any other draw. Massive fish obviously, but when all the cards are turned against you every hand, you can't beat anyone no matter how bad they play. This is how I run every session, every hand. And consequently, this is the spot I face with most of my hands, because I almost always have the worst hand, but I re-analyze it, asking myself if I could have lost less. Of course losing less doesn't equal winning. Anyone would lose a lot of money in that spot, but I don't even think it was that bad of a call. Sometimes you have to pay people off, and when 90% of your hands end with you deciding if you should pay someone off, it can be easy over-analyze it.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-04-2024 , 07:41 AM
bet more OTF and OTT imo

you're giving incredible odds to any flush draw, and want to charge his worse 1-pair hands
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-04-2024 , 02:52 PM
Bet more on flop, bet more on turn or check, but I like a bet. I probably check river. Sigh-call as played.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-04-2024 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tramboi
Well anyway, the guy had pocket AAs. Unbelievable. Slowplayed it the whole way, had no fear of an 8, no fear of me getting there by the river with any other draw. Massive fish obviously, but when all the cards are turned against you every hand, you can't beat anyone no matter how bad they play. This is how I run every session, every hand. And consequently, this is the spot I face with most of my hands, because I almost always have the worst hand, but I re-analyze it, asking myself if I could have lost less. Of course losing less doesn't equal winning. Anyone would lose a lot of money in that spot, but I don't even think it was that bad of a call. Sometimes you have to pay people off, and when 90% of your hands end with you deciding if you should pay someone off, it can be easy over-analyze it.
why would he be afraid of an 8 when you raised pre and are betting so small on the turn?

ive cold called a raise preflop with AA before in certain situations. such as when my pf 3 bets are getting too much respect, or i have terrible players players behind me who will call pf raises with junk but fold to 3bets. the play also works great if someone behind you likes to squeeze. there are a lot of squeezers at 2/5 you can do this to.

his postflop play would be fine too if he wasnt so shortstacked (given his stack size i would raise the flop). if i was playing deep wouldnt raise your flop bet with AA with so many behind, and i wouldnt raise the turn with AA either because i want to keep your QX and KK hands in. sure maybe the river minraise is silly but he got you to call with worse, maybe if he shoved you would have folded.

maybe he wasnt thinking on this level but i dont think you can just assume this guy a fish.

Last edited by NittyOldMan1; 03-04-2024 at 09:47 PM.
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote
03-05-2024 , 05:13 PM
With no reads on V, just the vague appearance of being a rec-fish, I think we have to call. Even if we expect to be beat more often than not, it's almost worth the extra $40 just to know this is how he plays AA.

As for the rest of the hand:

PRE - raise bigger. 5 callers is at at least 3 too many.

FLOP - it's okay to start with a check, when OOP and multi-way.

Someone should have enough of the board to bet. If we're going to c-bet into 5 opponents, we can size down. I might only bet $12-$15 here.

TURN - check. The board-pairing 8 doesn't hit our range as much as his, so it's a good card for him to bluff.

RIVER - if the turn checks through, we can bet 2/3 pot. If V bet turn and we checked, block-bet around 40% pot, planning to fold to a raise (nut not a min-raise).
Top pair top kicker gets min-raised on the river Quote

      
m