I personally thought he could have Q9 Q10 QJ when he donked so I flatted to reeavlaute turn/keep his weaker queens in expecting him to slow down but when he bets $65 with only $80 behind I thought he never has those weaker hands he at least had KQ/AQ minimum. I folded the turn BTW.

True,

99% of the time I don't do this, but I was super friendly with my neighbor and we had sorta been showing each other cards when folding (granted he showed me about 20 times more than I showed him.) You are right, normally this is an ego driven move, but for me in this instance, it was NOT ego, it was genuinely just comedy because I thought it was absolutely hilarious that she had finally raised after 2 hours of play and it just so happened to be when I got QQ .

But you are right, showing is -EV longterm, even if we are at a table of droolers and typical rec-fish.

In these situations I try to remember that poker is a game of information. When villain bets flop he is giving us information. When we call the flop, we are giving him information. Most villains at this level will slow down if weak or medium strength once the preflop raiser flats them on the flop. They will also (usually) give off tells on the turn to include betting and sizing tells and general live read tells. Not saying we should be soul reading, but occasionally, villains will give us valuable information so we can make the correct play.

I was in two similar spots the other day. I raised preflop in position, and in both spots I completely whiffed. Game 2/5nl, eff stacks $500+

First scenario, 3-limpers, I raise to $20 w KT, 2 callers MP and LP,
flop($60) Q 8 6
V1 semi thinking ABC players leads out $30, V2 folds, I call

Turn($120) 4
V1 starts stacking and restacking his chips contemplating the "perfect" bet amount, first he's at $40, then $45, then $100, then down to $60, then on reflection $55 and is just stacking and restacking for a good minute until he gets "just" the right amount of $55 then he bets $55. I make it $200...

V1 had very clear sizing tells when he was strong and weak and he tended to overbet drawy boards when he had a strong value hand, but tended to do this stacking bs when he had a weak value hand which was confirmed by the weak turn bet. He says, "you have KQ? AQ huh?" and then folds without showing.

Scenario 2. Similar situation, but in this case, V blasts the pot on the turn for a near pot sized bet, I go away without a second thought. V flashes me TPTK...

So I'm in favor of peeling one off when in position when we have decent equity because our villains will almost always define their hand, intent, strength, etc with their turn bet, sizing, and mannerisms. I don't like relying on physical tells to justify play because I think players make the mistake of leveling themselves too much, however, physical tells when combined with good profiling based on betting patterns and sizing tells and tendencies, is a POWERFUL combination telling us what our villains have and whether or not we can blow them off their hand or we should just surrender or if we should just flat our value hands and let them value own themselves.

One thing I've noticed about tons of really good players is that they tend to be sticky as all hell. They are rarely if ever one and done. When the stacks are deep enough, when they have enough equity, when their villains are transparent, really good players stick around. I've come to interpret this as better players being able to utilize the information better than their opponents. The more betting, the more streets played, the more information exchanged, the more it favors the better player. Sometimes, in situations like this, we end up folding turn. And I'm fine with that because in other situations we win pots our villains would not have won or we extract more value than our villains would have extracted. Sure, on occasion we may value own ourselves, but over the long run, if done correctly we are making more than we lose and more importantly, due to reciprocity, we are making more money than our villains and thus are up longterm vs them

I'll have to ponder that, thank you!

I was under the impression that most people suggest calling in situations where, for some reason, they feel their hand is too strong to fold, and not because they're able to gain much information on the next street.

I've noticed that as well. Lots of them like Galfond label themselves as "Calling Stations.".

^^^ We just have to be careful and mindful, there is a fine line between sticky and station and being too stubborn

dgi is a boss! i normally do this sometimes on games i rare go back and play (i.e. casinos), because a few years back i showed them my nice laydowns (1) sqz IP with AA, 2 callers and the tight UTG opener donk potsize on a T high and I folded showing my ace saying he has a TT, which i was right 2) another AdAh hand where i x/f after 3betting OOP and the board is KQJsss and he shoved a little over pot)

after that, my regular homies used that against me...

Pre is horrible because you don't have {TT+, AQo+} and everyone knows you shouldn't ever VP$IP between BB and CO when you don't fit that range .

Seriously, pre is fine. It's a decent playable hand. You coulda possibly bet a little more, but this is table-dependant.

Fist pump snap fold

my speculations affirmed nice post