1/3 NLHE 9 handed

V1 - loose white guy. vpiping 80% and opening hands like Q2s, T9o for 15$ pre. Calling wide post. Limping a lot too. MP Covers.

HH - H opens K9dd from BTN over V1s limp, V1 calls HU. Flop Th 6c 3s. Check, H bets 2/3rds, V calls. Turn Qh x x, River Qc V1 bets 1/5th pot, H raises pot, V1 calls with As3c.

V2 - Asian man limping his entire range pre and jamming 400$ pre into 10$ pots. Been stacked once by AKss. VPIP about 50%. BB 450$.

H - On second BI and semi-tilted. Has been running bad lately.

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UTG limps, V1 limps, H limps 9 7 on BTN, SB limps, V2 checks in BB, 5 ways last to act.

Flop 15 - K T 8

Check, Check, Check, V1 bets 15, Hero calls, SB folds, V2 x/r to 85, UTG folds, V1 calls 85, Hero?

V2s range is all sets (KK included), 2pair and some QJ, J9 possibly.

K9 hand seems pretty bad. Flop is a check almost always. Our hand just isn't strong enough and we can't turn much equity.

But if you're gonna bet then you have to barrel when you get the best card possible that isn't a K. Your river raise doesn't make any sense. Gotta make sure you're repping something before you pull the trigger on a bluff

Hand 2 call is best by a lot. You get a great price and are in position. Raising flop doesn't generate any folds and you're just taking your equity at that point.

It's still a +ev play to jam but it's not the line that makes you the most money and there's way more variance as well.

It's easier to just panic jam and tell yourself that you did a good job whether you win or you lose tho

why bluff a calling station in hand 1 when you rep nothing that makes sense? i wouldnt fold anything to your river raise either. checking back flop makes sense to me too, i think i cbet too much HU. reason is you cant turn any backdoors to bluff with.

anyways what drowski said, i dont see reason do anything but call.

How exactly are you ranging V2 on potentially having KK here? He doesn't iso over 4 limpers in the BB with no one left to act? Does he sometimes iso raise hands? What is our stack size?

It's a very weird situation. You can almost never be wrong getting it in on the flop with an OESD + FD. This situation is a little scary though because there could be some draws out there that dominate you. If you back jam and V2 rejams, then V1 may come along with one of those draws. There are very bad reverse implied odds vs a better flush. Also, if we call now and villain overbets turn, we may be forced to fold. V2 clearly doesn't care much for what size the pot is if he is jamming 400 into $10 pots. His flop raise itself is an overbet.

It's dicey but with the dead money, I think we probably have enough equity to jam here. Hopefully we get some fold equity on V1 as well. If one of them calls with only 2 pair, TT, 88, we've got 46-47% equity which is probably enough. If both call we need less equity and have less equity, but still we could be up against 2p/2p in which case we are doing decent. And with some fold equity some times, I think that can make it profitable. Like, not amazingly profitable, but + EV. The variance can be a B but that's poker.

V2 was limping 100% of his hands pre. He limp jammed AA and KK. He would wait to see a 'clean' flop and then shove. He limped about 50% of hands pre and almost always folded. Flop to someones bet. He'd also call a lot pre for someones RFI.

I've never seen either V1 or V2 at this room before and this is after about 4 hours playing with them both. In the HH I didn't know V1 was a station that could bet 1/5th with bottom pair and call a chunky raise. I was trying to rep a Q like QJ or KQ that didn't bet turn.

This is what happened. Stacks felt awkward. I knew V1 was very wide. It felt like I didn't want to just call, whiff turn and fold to a barrel....

i think you can raise flop the first time around when he bets, as played now id probably just call ip closing the action. i dont think jam is losing or anything, but unless the guy is xr / folding a signif amount of the time which seems unlikely to me given your line (and people dont really show aggression in limped pots that often) i dont think you're going to be making very much by jamming whereas i think calling is going to be worth quite a bit.

I'd raise V1's $15 bet. As played, jam or fold. I think calling and having to fold the turn would induce more tilt

Is calling better though? Based on description of v jamming 400 into $10 pots, seems like we are very likely to face a jam on the turn. Jamming might be our shot to realize our equity if we don't bink turn and take whatever fold equity we can get vs V1. I am assuming we have no fold equity vs V2, but I wouldn't rule out V2 just having a K here. Especially since he didn't donk in a limped pot and it seems like he might just jam if he had better than a K again based on description.

not realizing our equity isn't really enough of a reason for me to want to jam here. equity realization isn't really a primary consideration for me on what action to take most of the time. like yeah it sucks if we brick and he jams and we probably have a close fold but so what? you're ip closing the action getting ~3:1, you're getting more than direct odds to draw and we will have some amount of implied odds vs 2 seemingly poor players. i think if you want to show aggression it would be much better when v1 bet the first time because he can have anything.

i think v2 is more likely to have a good hand when he does this than if he bets the flop or x jams the flop over 15 lol. i actually think its pretty rare anyone doesn't have a good hand when they do this

Hand one agree with what drowski said. You want to select the hands with bdfds. But vs most people it's not that bad.

But yeah checking back the turn is a bigger mistake than your flop bet imo.

Seems like you're missing a lot of mandatory double barrels which is just a recipe for losing vs loose players who call flops too wide.

Trying to raise rivers after you checked back the turn is something you should do with value, not bluffs.

Ok thanks everyone.

Result:

Think I'd have a hard time folding our specific hand on the flop, even knowing we're only rooting for a non-club 6 or J on the turn.

Maybe call flop and fold turn on a brick. Not sure I'd bet any club if it checks to us. Might just check back and bet river if it checks to us again.

V1 being splashy-sticky and V2 being limpy-jammy sounds like a recipe for losing a huge pot with a 2nd-best flush if we blast off on the turn.

Banana you gotta slow down and tighten up, I think. All your recent hand histories sound like you're spewing, trying to use naked aggression to compensate for being card-dead against rec-fish.

Rec-fish don't like to make tight folds, and a lot of them seem to live for the thrill of hero-calling big bluffs with any pair. Just take them to value-town, and don't pay them off when they start piling money in.

^^ yep Im taking a month or more off. Im trying to force things with pure aggression and opening K7s, T2s etc. Need to chill. (also getting unlucky though, Ive gii pre with KK against AQ and lost 4 times now).

I recently got it in pre with ATo vs KK, and won. About an orbit later, I over-called a raise pre with J2s, flopped trips on a board of 522tt, raised flop, turned quads, and got value on every street - from the same guy who doubled me up with AT v KK.

I can only imagine what he must have been thinking.

"Even the losers get lucky sometimes." - Tom Petty.

I also lost to a 5-outer, a 4-outer, a 3-outer, a 2-outer, and saw a friend lose a 1-outer, all in the same week last year. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

I see bad players trying to force things with aggression all the time. It's just punting, not printing.

Take a break. Tighten up. Don't force things. Let the game come to you more. Spend the time away studying and learning.

Thanks doc