Hi everyone,
I just reread (like the 9th time) the interview that Harrington did to Bobby Hoffman, and published at the end of Harrington's "Cash Games, Volume II".
I thought that has valuable insight and bits of knowledge, although I questioned some other stuff (probably in my ignorance) -and I wonder as well if the advice/critiques he does applies to Live Low NL, not only High Stakes.
I have selected some excerpts (with questions and objections, or just the bits that it seemed interesting to me), with the idea of reading some opinions about it from all of you. I hope this is the place to put this kind of stuff.
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On Buck Buchanan:
It seems the "King of Position", a really tight player from the classics, from Doyle's era. Hoffman says that he played so well after the flop, that he didn't throw any hand away on the button. But he never raised before the flop either, so it was almost impossible to put him on a hand. He could be there with AA or QQ or anything.
Thoughts on this?
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On Stu Ungar:
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(He was)… just too loose… (once) he was playing with Buckanan, Jesse Alto, Mike Cox (…) tough, tight tight players… and Stuey would raise the flop, and it would come 755 or something, and they'd check and he'd bet, and they'd raise, and he put them on a bluff and call with A high or something. They had trips, you know?"
so:
1-How come tough really tight tight players (super nits?) would have a hand here?
2- You think he's somehow derisive of the figure of Stu Ungar?
3- Also, it seems he identifies a good player with being tight. Incomprehensible, because he identifies himself as being really aggressive…
Another excerpt on this is: "
I played Bill Smith. Bill was a very tight player. He was a really tight player and a really good tight player. (…) he is UTG with AKo and he discards it: 'Im not going to play it'. No good for him".
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On NL Holdem:
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What hurts NL holdem, even in deep stack cash games, is the big reraise before the flop. You get a shut out. And Often the first reraise, from the BB, is a shutout raise. You can't make that play in pot limit. In PL, if the chips get really deep, that second raise still leaves your opponents with big implied odds. At NL, you can cut their implied odds way down. It takes (that) from a good player."
Thoughts? He proposes a PL PF, and a NL Post Flop version of holdem, pretty much like the TV show "The Big Game".
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About improving the young player's game:
He said something that often is said (in a slightly different way) in chess, that is: You learn analyzing the games that you have lost. You don't learn from the games you have won. Is a dogma for improving chess players.
Hoffman said something similar, but surprisingly, not about hands, no. He said:
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You don't really get to improve your game until you go bad. It changes you." and later adds someone's quote:
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You show me a guy that has been lucky at for a year, and I will show you someone that can't be playing well."
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On Strategy (and this may be the most important part of the interview)
1-calling reraises
He said that the most common mistake “the good-young players” make is when they call the reraise too much. “I see it over and over again”.
“
I mean, I raise with AK and I get reraised, I think the reraise is legitimate, I don’t even think about it (…) I throw the hand away. (…) Now, Im talking about somebody that has a big stack. If they have a short stack, I may reraise and race with them. (…) but if I raise, I got two callers, and someone (deepstacked) in late position reraise (…), you have to hope they are bluffing before you touch that call. (…) do they have AQ? Maybe, but not likely, you’ve got an A in your hand. QQ? If so, is a 2-to-1 (…) So, I just muck it. Now if I have 7-5 suited, I can think about it, specially if Im in position”
2- trouble hands
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I think another mistake they make is not paying attention to the trouble hands before the flop. (…) AQ, KQ, AJ, two big unsuited cards. (…) I rather throw the KJ away and pick any 2 cards from the discards. If I get 6s3s that’s fine (when calling in late position a decent raise from early position). (…) What do you want from KJ? You want to make straight, trips, or two pairs. You don’t want to make one pair because it’s hard to make any money. Now, look at 6-3.: (you raise in a K72 board, and) …when they fold, you take the pot. When they call, you know you are beat. You are done with the hand. (but) they fold more than call, so you make a little money.
Now look what happens when you hold KJ. When they fold (good). But when they call, , what did they call you with? Maybe AK, KQ, 77, 22, bad news. You are (only) hoping that they called you with KT, K9, K8, but most wont call before the flop with that.”
3-to the question: Do you ever fold KK PF?
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The most difficult hand in NL, without a doubt, is KK. (…) IF your opponent raises, you reraise, and (there is a) third raise (…) you are an underdog. You probably rather have QQ than have two kings (…) because they are only reraiseing with (AA, KK, AK) you are obviously 4-1 underdog.”
[This I don’t understand: QQ vs a range of AA,KK, AK is 40% vs 60% (1.5-to-1), and KK vs AA, KK, AK is 48% vs 52%, and if we add QQ to that range, is even ahead. Am I missing something of his reasoning? –DPCharly]
He makes a case about KK in small blind, facing a reraise form a good aggressive palyer in the button, deep stacked. “
I don’t know what to do. (…) In a deep stack game, you cant fall in love with KK”
4-On the Barry Greenstein Play (or raising /bluffing against limpers from the SB)
“it’s a feel thing. It depends how often the back players limp in and how likely players are to call the raise no matter what. But if they are trying to win and playing fairly tight, a big raise out of the small blind before the flop, when you have some back limpers, can be very effective. But in a really tough game, everybody knows that play. () so we are into multilevel thinking here. And (if) they have the courage to do anything about it?”
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There is more. But this is already a long post. If this catch the attention of you guys, and you want to continue with some important points of the interview, like seat selection, stack selection, barreling and another plays, let me know, I will post it tomorrow.
So… what about some commenting?