I play in a very passive, fairly easy to read, 1-2 300 max game. 90% of the time, if someone 3 bets it's JJ+. More likely QQ +. Every now and then it's AK. It's a soft game.

(occasionally someone will sit who has a clue and will 3 bet lighter, but generally speaking 3 bets are QQ+)

What are your thoughts on exploitatively folding AKo to a single 3 bet after you open in this player pool?

Obv in a tougher game it's a call or even 4 bet.

Depends on the sizing, our image, the player, and their post flop tendencies.

Don’t forget position!

If players are waiting for QQ+ to 3bet they are going to have a real hard time getting much money out of me. I'm not paying them.

AKo has about 30% equity against QQ+, and about 35% equity against JJ+. Obviously equities run even with AKo and close against AKs.

If you open to $15 and get 3! to $45 your getting better than 2:1 on a call. Folding would be bad.

If you open to $15 and get two calls then a 3! comes in to say $75, your still getting better than 2:1 on a call. Folding there would be bad to.

It’s not so simple, we tend to under-realise our equity if villain’s range is too strong. Yes we would win 35% of the time if we check it down, but in practice villain ends up betting a lot when we miss (because his range is so strong), so we get pushed off our equity quite often.

Agreed. That doesn't make it a fold pre. Your laying a very solid argument for a 4! with a top 10 starting hand depending on V type, position and stack sizes. I mean maybe fold with a dead read on a few opponents that we have a lot of history with, but as an exploit vs the entire pool? Thats bad.

All pools are different but I've had bad regs that watch too many youtube videos hero fold QQ and even KK pre face up and say "no one 4 bets anything but aces"

I didn’t say I would fold! Just pointing out that equity is different from ev.

I generally don't but if my read is their range is AK/QQ+ and they have postion on me, I fold and don't worry about it.

+1. This pretty much. I treat these players like an empty chair basically. You have to earn the action if you want it, and if players are just waiting for the nutz to 3 bet or put significant money into the pot i just fold in silence not paying them anything.

I've folded AK many times pre, it depends on the range of the 3bettor, not just the table in general. Good players know when to lay down good hands.

+2

easy fold


if its a struggle for you then work on your mental game

I'm not folding AK to a normal sized 3 bet.

If you ONLY play AA/KK versus a 3 bet, then you fold 99%+ of all hands versus a 3 bet. Isn't that a little weak? Isn't that hugely exploitable?

Usually, people ask should I 4 bet or call here? Not, should I fold Big Slick? The way I'd do it versus these opponents is flat and if I hit top pair/top kick on the flop, I'm trying to get it all in.

GL, Magnum

Just fold and don’t tell anyone. No one will know.

If they’re 3! So infrequently, the chances they 3! You when you have AKo, is going to be even more infrequent. You might run into this situation like once or twice a week if you play a lot of hours.


There are plenty of hands to play against someone when they play face up AA/KK. Pocket pairs and suited connectors.

It’s okay (sometimes even good) to be exploitable if villain is not exploiting you.

These opponents sound like they wouldn’t even know what the word exploitable even means.

Also, are you sure you want to eagerly get top pair all in against very passive opponents? Isn’t that playing right into their hands? Their plan is to wait for a big hand, and when they get it, THEN they try to get all-in. And I seriously doubt anything less than two pair is a big hand to them.

I’m a beginner but I have done it once to a much larger than usual 3bet and when it folded around the guy turned his aces over.

I felt like a genius because it saved me so much money, but I know in the long run there’s a lot more to it.

I think the most useful thing to do is start asking how are we so sure that they have these great hands? How will we know when they adjust? As long as the logic is sound I think it’s a reasonable play, if you’re up against aces or kings folding is rarely gonna be a bad choice.

But I also question if I was doing it because it made me seem so dang savvy. You know the common saying that narcissists don’t like themselves deep down? It’s a myth, they like themselves just fine. But when people say the myth, it makes then look smart like a psychologist despite being completely wrong. So I try to always challenge myself, am I doing this because it’s smart or because it makes me feel smart?

And with card removal it gets even worse; even if you’re only up against aces or kings half the time you’re 3-bet, that’s still 2 of your 6 outs missing.

You are absolutely right when you say that the question is "how sure are we that villain holds these hands and only these hands?"

Is folding AK weak tight? (I think you know my opinion.)
Is this a case of "monsters under the bed" syndrome?
Or is OP right when he says that "90% of the time villain holds JJ+."

What if it is 80% or 70% or 50%?
What if villain sometimes includes TT and AQ in their range or AJs or KQs?
What if Hero raises from the CO and villain 3 bets from the BN? Do you think that 3 bet range is wider?
What if Hero steal-raises from LP and villain 3 bets from the SB or BB? Do you think that 3 bet range is wider?
Do all 8 opponents have the exact same nitty 3 bet range?
What if villain is short stacked or tilted or drunk?

We'll never know for sure because OP folds 99% of his hands versus a 3 bet. And really we can never know for sure anyway. It is a guesstimate, at best.

All we can do is approximate villain ranges. Some of us are better at this than others and even those of us who are very good at this can be surprised from time to time and are maybe just off by a little bit here or there.

IF OP is right and the range is JJ+, I still think AK is playable but I can listen to a debate about whether to 4 bet or flat or fold.

If OP is wrong by even a little bit then he is losing value and playing weak-tight.

If anything this thread is a perfect example of why we should be 3 betting more, regs fold 99 percent of their hands to you and weak players call to wide.

But seriously, for everyone folding AKo pre to a standard 3! because of this perceived range, your folding AKs and QQ also right? I mean AKs is only slightly better equity wise and QQ is way worse (and unless your super deep, your not getting odds to set mine with QQ).

And your also folding KK 100% to c bets on all flops containing a Q or A since you beat 0 hands in Vs range at that point, correct?

That's how confident you are in your read?

Sure, if you can snap your fingers and magically turn yourself into a World War II vet, then you'll have great success getting players to fold strong hands preflop.

Well the Original Poster and apparently numerous replies are folding AK.

Sure, to nits. So if you want to be a nit then you'll get players to fold strong hands preflop. Folding strong hands vs tight 3betters is an exploit against them, not vice versa.

In recent years players are 3-betting wider but there are still players that have an extremely tight 3betting range. The are also differences in player pools throughout the country/world. OP is specifically talking about a game where 3bets are not a big part of the game.

To this day that finger snap WWII vet transformation skill evades me. The things that would do for my WR when I end up with 8 high on the river.....

To be fair, OP asked about making this adjustment to the entire player pool and no one said they would, just that they would to certain players.

I guess I'm just a little surprised that so many people are so confident in their reads that they are folding everything except KK and AA to a standard 3!.... or maybe they continue with QQ and AKs which would be extremely inconsistent with their logic but to each their own.....

Theoretically it's obvious when you can fold AKo to a 3bet, if you're a dog it's OK go ahead and fold. The arguments around this are similar to the "can you fold KK preflop?" and relate to the reliability of reads in narrowing ranges to make hero folds. Well I think everyone has played again people whose 3bet range is QQ+/AK or tighter, if that person 3bets you and we have AKo and are OOP, this is an easy fold. I don't get why this is even an argument, unless you literally haven't had that experience in your player pool and therefore can't relate to the concept.

Shouldn’t the answer be “it depends”? stack sizes, 3bet size and position matter a lot

At 2/5, $1000 effective. We open AKo on BTN to $20, and OMC 3bets to $60 in BB. Is anyone folding AKo in this spot?

Different situation: At 2/5, we open AKo in UTG to $20, and OMC on BTN 3bets to $100 off a $300 stack. This is a much more straightforward fold.