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Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options

10-06-2023 , 06:42 AM
1/1 in a European casino. Table is more reg-filled than usual this evening. 10 handed.

V1 - solid, uncreative reg. Winning player but not very creative. SB.
V2 - one of the better players. Apparently has a lot of tournament success. Seems studied w/r/t to choosing good 3bet/4bet spots, bet sizings etc. (not many people bet <50% pot on the flop in these days, even in 3b pots). UTG.
Hero - seen as a solid winning player. UTG+1.

Hero has 200 and both Vs cover.

There's a button straddle to 2. SB Makes is 10. UTG thinks a while then makes it 28.

We have QQ UTG+1.

What's our play? None of the options seem great.

+++

4bet to fold to a shove - turns QQ into a bluff? 4bet would typically be around 70 which is more than a third of our stack. Commits us?
4bet to call a shove - how does QQ do against a 5b jam range in live poker for 200BBs effective?
Calling most likely takes us three ways to the flop but we do have position. Will we know where we are if/when we flop overpairs? Are we calling to set-mine with QQ(?!)
Folding - Folding the third best hand in poker versus a guy who definitely 3bets more than most? Hmm.

+++

Thoughts welcome.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 08:28 AM
I wouldn't really think of it as 200BBs deep with a straddle on, especially if 10 is a normal open. 100BBs is 33.33 normal opens in a game where the normal open is 3xBB. You only have 20x the open. That's almost like playing 66BBs deep. Even if you ignore the open size argument, you are only 100 straddles deep.

I would def 4-bet/call a shove with QQ if playing less than 100BBs, so I probably would here, though I wouldn't snap, especially if V1 doesn't fold.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 09:24 AM
At this stack depth, I think clicking this up to 56 or jamming are both reasonable plays. I think I would mainly call if we go 56 if it folds around and the SB or UTG jam, but if one jams and another calls, I think maybe we can get away. If a full stack cold jams I think we might be able to get away from it.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 10:36 AM
We're only 100bb effective. We shouldn't be folding to an aggressive, 3-bet happy villain. Raise to ~60 or jam is fine.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 11:11 AM
we have ZERO invested into the pot at this time.

So do we want to flip for stacks or quietly fold and wait for a better spot.

If I know I have an edge over the table skill wise I quietly fold; flipping is for slot players and I hate the slots.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 12:13 PM
If the 3bettor is actually a savvy player, they would know that 3betting an early position raiser light is a bad move. So both of them probably have good hands. I'd just flat the 3bet and keep my range as wide as possible with position. They'll let you know if they have an overpair.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
If the 3bettor is actually a savvy player, they would know that 3betting an early position raiser light is a bad move. So both of them probably have good hands. I'd just flat the 3bet and keep my range as wide as possible with position. They'll let you know if they have an overpair.
We know V2 is an aggressive reg, QQ is value against his UTG 3-bet range.

Cold-calling an EP 3-bet of an UTG open is not keeping your range wide. You're saying you have 99-QQ / KQs / QJs. If V1 shoves V2 can reshove knowing you're capped. If you trap AA/KK like this to protect your range you're sacrificing a lot of value and you'll hate your life when you got 3/4/5 ways to the flop.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 03:04 PM
i just fold, w/e. looks like a breakeven or very slightly better than breakeven spot to play and i dont like pointless variance.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 04:17 PM
I don't understand the "don't flip" answers. If a spot is +EV, it is, assuming you're sufficiently rolled. This isn't a tournament, you can take the marginal +EV spots and the fat ones.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 04:39 PM
Agreeing with Mlark and Hobbes91. Your 4 bet sizing here should be quite small here, since the 3 bettors range is already quite strong so making it to 75+ would be even more nutted. I would be against Jamming since there are more people to act after you and it gives horrible odds for AK to call (from both SB and UTG). I think calling a 5bet and/or playing postflop IP is preferable.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-06-2023 , 04:53 PM
$55 and evaluate. Second option is call.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-08-2023 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
I don't understand the "don't flip" answers. If a spot is +EV, it is, assuming you're sufficiently rolled. This isn't a tournament, you can take the marginal +EV spots and the fat ones.
math wise you are 100% correct

it just lowers the roller coaster variance train , If I'm putting in $200 into a spot where my EV is + 0.38¢ I'd just assume skip it, again only if I know I have the skills over the line up.
IF we feel we are marginal or against better than by all means straight up math will get the job done.
If we are set mining or feel we are 8-1 not good odds
also stakes are 1-1 so made assumption OP not rolled
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote
10-08-2023 , 12:56 PM
50 and call jam from the 3bettor. Fold vs a cold jam from the blinds.
Third best hand in poker and I don't like any of my pre-flop options Quote

      
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