So started playing live again recently in some backroom games and trying to figure out whether or not these games are beatable.

First game is 1/2 with 2.5bb taken off any pot over 10bb (max buy in is 100bb)

Second game is 1/3 with a straddle button with 10% at 6.7bb cap, I'd say there is a straddle about 50% of hands. (max buy in is 330bb)

3rd game is 2/5 at 10% with a 3.2bb cap (100bb max buy in).

All games are no flop/no drop.

All these games have freerolls/ high hands promos etc so I'd guesstimate that 15-25% of the rake is going back to the players on avg.

I know that if table is decent most theses games may be unbeatable but assuming a bunch of splashy fun players with a couple of nitty weak players are all these games still worth playing in? Or are some blatantly unbeatable?

also just to confirm I'm on the right path the general strat in these games should be to play a tighter VPIP and raise bigger preflop?

So 1/2, 25%, $5 max? Easily beatable if there aren't many small pots. Silly structure though, and def one that plays to TAG strengths, not LAG. I mean, even at 10%, most pots would probably hit a $5 max at my games.

1/3, 10%, $20 max? Probably not beatable, though if everyone buys in for max, maybe.

2/5, 10%, $16 max, iffy but maybe.

what do you think is the ceiling for potential long-term hourly WR in these games?

What is worse rake wise, high percentage of high cap?

Depends on the avg pot size. For games with larger pots the cap is better

Depends. Sure the amount of extra rake you pay is figurable, but the effect of all that extra money coming off the table is not. If people are re-loading with abandon, the extra rake you pay is your only reduction from your regular win-rate. If they're stacks tend to dwindle a lot, that has a much bigger effect on your WR.

thanks for your input. Would short-stacking be out of the question in the 2/5 game?

I would never short-stack these games. Winning big pots that get well over max rake is going to be key here. Short-stacking makes that impossible.

short stacking the first game might be doable because you're all in most hands you play and the rake is capped already if you make a 5x pfr and get one caller.

so you would say playing 60bbs at the 2/5 would probably make it unbeatable?

Well, I don't really consider 60BBs shortstacking, but I sure would want as many BBs as possible to play for as much of a pot unraked as possible every once in a while.

50-60bb is definitely shortstacking live, even 100bb's is relatively short compared to the preflop raise sizes.
If you compare it to online where the pfr size is now about 2,5bb live easily plays 4 times bigger.

Just to put some perspective on this...

Assuming the 1/3 game runs kinda normally (i.e. not super big), I'd assume the average hand to result in a 30bb pot (e.g. 5bb open, two+ callers, 1/2 pot bet otf with one call, and is taken down ott). At 20 hands per hour (low estimate), the house is raking 60bb/hr off the table.

My guess is this game is unlikely to be beatable unless you got folks willing to routinely stack off with poor hands.

First and third are definitely beatable. Second is only beatable if most of the table is deep.

The 1/2 is probably the most beatable in terms of BB/hour. The 1/3 & 2/5 probably play fairly similar due to straddle frequency & deeper buyin for the 1/3. The rake is also similar so they're probably about equal in terms of potential $/hr, unless the min stack for 1/3 is noticeably smaller than the minstack for 2/5.

For the 1/2, the adjustments I would make would be to play quite TAG. Also pay attention to the 10BB threshold and potential opportunities to go under it, or go well over it to build bigger pots and reduce the effective rake rate. Ex.: Folds to us in the CO/BTN. If we think 0-1 callers is a frequent occurrence when we raise, raise to 4BB or less. Another ex: Going bigger when we expect multiple callers.

After a couple of sessions short stacking my relatively high rake (5% 5bb) local 2/4 games I'm pretty certain you can beat it if the table is good enough and for a reasonable hourly at that.
If I play a 5% range and literally get zero action, I'm still making a fair amount of money out of scooped up dead money.
This means you pick up every limp or raise every 2 rotations.
Of course you actually do get action some of the time and it's in situations where you usually completely crush their range so the end result is even better.

got another one here

1/2 10% with $12 cap. Potentially beatable?

My own guess is that unless your games are playing decently deep with decently horrible players that this rake (as well as your lol $20 capped rake at your 1/3 NL game) are unlikely to be beatable (at least for much). Those are pretty crushing rakes.

My guess is that tight-is-right-and-tighter-is-righter is the only way you'll beat these games (i.e. you don't want to be splashing around in a lotta pots donating to the rake pool).

Gimo,butI'mguessingG

If these are like kitchen table games among coworkers who buy in for the max, reload several times, will call a $20 raise pre and always stack off with TP, then yeah beatable. Otherwise I'd probably look for a diff game.