Stacks 100bb deep, 2/4

2 limpers, good tricky TAG raises to $24 OTB, folded to us in BB we have AQs

- I know I don't really want to play OOP postflop vs this guy with this hand
- I know the limpers will probably fold to his raise, def. fold to any 3bet from me
- I know he's capable of raising limpers with a wide range here w/ position advantage
- I know that he knows I know that
- I know that he's capable of "floating" my 3bet here to try & use position to **** with me postflop even with hands as weak as AQ or 99(not setmining) or even 89s, esp. if he thinks that I have an unpaired hand like AKs AKo AQs that I don't like flatting his raise with... like I said he's not an ABC TAG he's somewhat tricky.

So in this spot knowing all that what's your preference: fold, call, or 3bet? If we 3bet and he shoves, unless we 3bet/fold which doesnt seem great does it?

The problem is that our hand isn't strong enough where we feel comfortable stacking off with, so it is like a semi-bluff here. I say semi-bluff because if one of the short stackers decides to raise AI and he has less than 100 bb, we may be forced to call, and we'd like to have atleast some hand for that.

How much are you planning on 3-betting to? It's not a great spot for him to float us because we rarely ever have a pure bluff. Your standard range for 3-betting here is likely QQ+/AK... and it's hard to see even tricky regulars deciding this is a great opportunity to mess with us.

If we 3bet it'd just be to a standard size of say $70-85

This guy though, however, has in the past in the same spot OTB flatted the 3bet with both AA & 89s, stacks 100bbs deep both times. When he did that with 89s the opponent was a robotic bad ABC TAG, when he did that w/ AA it was against me and on a J83 flop I cbet he jammed I of course had to call with QQ given that I was committed.

seems like a pretty easy call to me

Against the type of player who always seems to play us perfectly, I would fold then. We will find ourselves in a marginal spot often. To counter his excessive calls, it makes sense to either tighten our range or 3-bet bigger and see how he responds to this.

It is quite obvious you should fold.

You are intimidated by this player, and he is better than you. Therefore, wait for a better spot in position or against a different player. Its best to play against players worse than you!!!

Last night another hand vs him was interesting.. he raised pf UTG I called IP w/ 99. 2 to the A72 flop he checks I check back for deception when I usually bet if checked to by pfraiser. 6 turn, he checks again I bet 1/2 pot he c/r'd me 4.5x I really felt he had either a set or nothing.. very strange line.. both deep with position I decided to call just to see what he has. He checks riv I check back he showed AJ... very tricky player!

If the limpers are especially bad, sometimes I call, esp soooooted, though it's definitely hard to play. What kinda hands do most people flat here? Like what would you do with like 88 type hands?

heads up no draw with TPGK he check flop that's fine, decide not to go with the TAG robot line, then CR your weak 1/2 pot turn bet because you didn't bet the flop when checked to, only hand he's really beaten by is 67 or a set. CR you to try to take the pot there kill any straight draws, he check river cause he prob thinks only getting called by better than his AcJc.

Get it in.

Request a seat change.

You guys who don't 3bet this most of the time: wtf ARE you 3betting here if not AQs?

The reason I probably don't 3-bet this as much as I should (and I'm sure many 100-200 players are the same way) is because bad regs, esp at 100, are more likely to flat us with AK than they are to 4bet/call.

I'm much more likely to 3-bet with very small pocket pairs (unlikely) and Axs than I am to 3-bet marginal value hands, especially when people will flat very strong hands like AA and drawy hands.

^^ I agree with your second paragraph

In this instance I 3bet to $80, villain insta-jammed and I folded.
Do I 3bet ever against him in this spot in the future without a premium hand? I think almost it's better to do it with 89s because if he decides to flat us we have a better chance than AQs. Maybe sometimes very rarely 33 or A5s or something.

I think calling w/ AQs sounds good but over time vs this kind of opponent how much can we expect to win OOP? Maybe a plan of 90% 3bet for value 10% as bluff, and fold all marginal hands might be a better plan? And limit the calls to setminers or non-dominated hands.. because after all if he's 2 to our right we have position on him 7 out of 9 hands so why mess with him when we're OOP in a marginal spot..

Not too much unless it's a bluff or we have a big hand. I don't get why you are assuming 3-betting has to be the best thing.

pot control out of position? All depends what we think his raising range against the limpers is, and what his flat v/jam range is against our 3bet.

still Learning NL.

Well, first, I'd check out the limpers stacks and their tendency to limp/reraise during this session. Just to have a plan depending on what happens after I call.

The reason I just call is because hands normalize when we are deep. And I have a hand I can stack someone with, and is generally easy to play post-flop. Being OOP is a significant concern, so I don't really mind folding too much.

With deep stacks all hands are (essentially) equal before the flop.

You want to see a flop here, so I thing calling>>folding>>reraising.

tricky=stupid?

Calling here oop cannot be profitable if you're basically just playing to hit top pair+. If he is as smart as you think he is and he jams to your 3 bet and your 3bet range is that tight where aqs is at the very bottom of your range, you can probably safely fold to a 4bet shove as he probably recognizes how narrow your range is.

Against a good player, you need to 3 bet this at a minimum and as you get more comfortable, expand your 3bet range in the blinds. If he flats, you can play your hand differently based on flop texture. Your hand has decent showdown value and if you end up sticking it in and getting called on a bricked board, you still have likely 6 outs to a win, which isn't terrible.

why?

Don''t se much value in 3betting this hand OOP vs tricky TAG.

Seems like a pritty clear call to me, especially as the fish is going to overcall you with A4s and proceed to stack off if they hit an ace.

yeah why so little love for calling? i'm sure 3bet/stacking off is profitable but calling keeps the fishier players in and AQs plays just fine multiway. just c/r select flops if the limpers fold and it's HU.

First off, if you're so intimidated by this guy that you would consider folder a hand as good as AQs to a standard raise you should leave the game. Your options are to raise or call. I think I like raise better if he's the type of player to flat a lot, as your hand is ahead of his range and 3-betting AQs for value is going to make 3-betting when you do pick up aces or kings much more profitable. If he's mostly 4-betting or folding then you should mostly just call