Wow is this serious? haha holy sh it youve got issues bro what are you bipolar?

I actually wasnt saying any of that to try and make it seem like YOU shouldve known that at the time and folded haha embarass and insult you? wow way to jump the gun

I never said the comment SHOULDVE affected your decision either its just a hilarious thing about these old gambooley asians I only said it as a side note observation

relax, breathe deep, no one is trying to go out of their way to fabricate sh it just to embarass and "ridicule" you haha no offense but youre not that important....JustinBieber on the other hand..

I kind of suspected there was a chance your comments were directed at the villain. But it seems kinda racist. So I took the lesser of two evils and fell on the sword for sensible asians everywhere.

FYI I like how you played this hand, and I agree with the posters who said I do not think you should be folding after putting in half the stack, regardless of asian trying to telegraph his hand it really doesnt matter at that point, hence why it was just a funny side note observation

seriously, nice runner runner, you weirdo


Just read your reply, lmao thats hilarious, nope, im just being racist, everytime I see them say gamble gamble they got the near nuts, brings me to tears

ps. thats so noble of you

Even though i am spewy, i pass on these kinda spot when oop. Whenever you are raising, you should think about the odds 2nd villain in position will be getting as fish is going to go all in. Before squeezing with this hand, i typically think about v2's range & type. Since he posted without waiting for his blind, i would assume that he is bit gambly type and might try to see flop if V1 calls our squeeze. So if you are squeezing with this hand you should raise bigger which means you are risking your stack. so should be thinking if its worth or should we wait for better spot if i have edge?. Any squeeze will get atleast 20% of chip in the middle and will put you in difficult spots. Ok... lets say you are raising then get it in on the favorable flop right away. In this case, i would have raised to $60-$70 and get it in on the flop. but this is a meh spot which should have avoided.

Hand is played fine Ez call

ahh.. buyin for max. you got a bigger spot . honey!! he called with 87 to a raise from a short stack.. lol..

umm no.
he called with Q6cc
the short stack raised with 78

my bad didn't read properly ... Q6cc ..still we got a gold mine.

This is the easiest 3bet in the world preflop and no it isn't remotely close, though I would go 45.

both of you are correct

This whole thread is popcorn.gif

I'm not even going to add my two cents, which would start with this hand is an abortion.

But you won, you're amazing. PS where is this game, I'd like to play it.

Not sure why you would isolate V1 with A8. Most fish like that never raise without a strong hand preflop. You want to get heads up against KJ, or KT and be a small favorite? I don't see your logic.

Can you read english? Did you see my description with actual examples of villain's opening range and post-flop tendencies.

I would isolate V1 with...

A8
Pocket 4's
T8suited
Two napkins

Uhhh. No.

TP of 8s with A8 on a monotone connected board, when you don't have one of that suit is not the same as having ak on a K73 board.

Would recommend downloading pokerstove or equilab and running your equity on different flops when these kind of hands come up. It will help you develop a much better understanding of what your hand is worth on the flop.

If I have AK on a K73, and put the villains on realistic ranges (V1 top 65% hands, V2 45% minus JJ+) then equity is in my favor 55% vs 22% vs 22%

If I have A8 on an 873 board with the same villains equity is 42% vs 29% vs 29%

Roughly equivalent as far as I'm concerned since the conclusion is exactly the same in both scenarios. Bet. And with these stack sizes we're likely going to be committed with both hands. Lines taken with both hands would be exactly the same, though you could argue that we don't need to isolate with AK. But as played, if we were in the flop spot with AK, on a K73 board...same decision, same result.

You might want to check this out


http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 8c7c3c
Equity Win Tie
MP2 28.85% 27.84% 1.02% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T6o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
SB 29.42% 28.26% 1.16% { TT-44, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, A2o+, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }
BB 41.73% 40.45% 1.28% { As8s }

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: Kc7c3c
Equity Win Tie
MP2 22.28% 21.28% 1.00% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T6o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
SB 22.10% 20.94% 1.16% { TT-44, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, A2o+, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }
BB 55.62% 54.15% 1.47% { AsKs }

It is a 13% difference. It isn't even close.

In your example, in the K high board you're an equity favorite.

On the 8 high board you're a dog.

One of the players in your hand had a 20BB stack, so gii when you are a dog, have an equity deficit in terms of implied odds, and have no fold equity doesn't make for a compelling argument.

Edit - did you check your heads up equity against V2, since the short stack is AI, and the side pot is going to be the bulk of the betting?

Comments in red

Youre a pro then. GL

New COTM proposal: Idontworkhere explaining what fold equity is.

...Because I think I know, but I can't really be sure until the prettiest boy at the table explains it to me.

Duh...it's when everyone has the same number of folds.

Wait..no....that's fold equality

Pre flop, I would sometimes make it 20. Then V1 can flat or go all-in if thats what you want. If V1 goes all in then it opens up another round of betting pre flop. If V2 flats 40, you can than make it 120 and get it HU with V1with 40 dead in the middle. If this is your read/goal.

AP, I'd bet 50 on the flop as we can "get away from the hand" cheaply if V2 goes ballistic. I don't like those clubs out there.

AP, I think I can't fold, but am also hating my life.

Just my 2c.

This is the way to play it

I really don't love the idea of investing over 1/3 of my stack and then folding to a villain who is sitting in a very easy and obvious semi-bluff spot with any big club.

grunch

this isn't a hand i'm getting so excited about, either pre or post. it's just too weak and too vulnerable at every point in the hand.

but if i have significant reads on V2 and know he's call/folding pre, then i'd make it 55 min to iso. anything around 35 gives V2 an easy call with his entire range (25 into 105).

I'm leaning towards this conclusion as well. However....

If we bet 55 or 60 preflop and get called by V2.....then what do we do on this flop? Checking seems completely ******ed, and the pot is so bloated now that betting commits us anyway.

I'm starting to think that the only way to really get V2 out of the hand would be to shove pre, and that DEFINITELY would be a spew.

It just seems like no matter how we play it, with these stack sizes against V2, I'm either check/folding a flop, or going to the felt with my hand. I'm trying to think of a flop where I would be betting and then be able to get away from the hand later. Not coming up with much.

So I'm feeling like if it's either all-in or fold on the flop, then my pre-flop raise should be the minimum needed to get V1's money in the middle.

Conclusion still evolving.....discussion encouraged.