Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run?

04-09-2014 , 12:39 PM
Hi guys,
I've been playing live poker 1/2$ and when it's an allin preflop and the villain asks if I want to make a deal, should I take a deal or not? Does it change the outcome or profit losses in the long run or it just reduces variance?
What about the flop? If we get it in and he asks me if we can run it once , twice or thrice, does it really matter if I run it any number of times?
Which is better? And why? What about when I'm ahead, behind or flipping?

Thanks in advance .
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 12:44 PM
This was discussed in decent length a few days ago, maybe a bit more than a week.

I would search for the thread and you can get some good information on it.
And likely the many other threads on the subject.

The short answer is that running it more than once will generally lower the variance in the hand. However if you have a sufficient bank roll for the event that you are in, you should usually not run it more than once baring other mitigating factors.

Other factors could be: Tilt inducing losses. Spew inducing winnings. Fish leaving with too much money if they double up. Fish leaving if they take a single bad beat that is too big, but they might stay if they take a lot of small losses.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 12:53 PM
If you know equities by all means make a deal. A few months ago I got it all in pre my KK v AA. He whipped over his AA before calling my all in and asked if I wanted to make a deal. I asked him what he had in mind. He ended up giving me a deal that was MASSIVE +ev for me. So I gave him the chips and mucked my hand.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 12:59 PM
Oh, I didn't think he was asking about non equity deals. I figured he was only asking about running 2, 3, 4 times.

If someone ever offers you a deal that gives you a better than positive expectation, then sure snap accept.

Why someone would ever offer you a +EV deal is beyond me.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 01:23 PM
Yeah.. I'm just asking about running it more than once.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Oh, I didn't think he was asking about non equity deals. I figured he was only asking about running 2, 3, 4 times.

If someone ever offers you a deal that gives you a better than positive expectation, then sure snap accept.

Why someone would ever offer you a +EV deal is beyond me.
Low risk tolerance on their part. I watched people willing give up ridiculous amounts of equity in large pots simply to avoid the very slim possibility of a large loss.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 01:27 PM
Make sure bad beat jackpot, high hand, or other promotions aren't nullified by this. Where I play running it twice invalidates all that, so running it twice when those are still possibilities is very -ev.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Why someone would ever offer you a +EV deal is beyond me.
Because they don't know the EV. I can very easily see a fish agreeing to take 3/4 of the pot with AA vs another pocket pair because "you know how aces always get cracked..."

I might try making that exact deal with someone, except for the fact that it could prompt someone else to call out the actual odds. Don't need to be educating the whole table for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
Make sure bad beat jackpot, high hand, or other promotions aren't nullified by this. Where I play running it twice invalidates all that, so running it twice when those are still possibilities is very -ev.
Huh, I think any room I've played at that has those bonuses simply doesn't allow running it twice. One reason would be, once that bad beat dollar is in the slot it would be a PITA to fish it back out.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 02:26 PM
Yeah, running it multiple times makes no difference in the EV. It just lowers the variance. I always accept, because it makes people more willing to get it in against me with a draw.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 06:49 PM
I'm always the black sheep on this subject.

most pros prefer to run it twice, I'm in the minority and hate it.

Why?

I believe that if players know that you are willing to run it twice, then it incentivizes them to shove on you. They can shove on you and realize that fold equity and when you fold they win. But then when you call, they get an extra shot (i.e. run it twice) to hit their draw.

If you did an EV calc on that, it would then become INSANELY profitable to shove semibluffs against players you know are willing to run it twice.

Also, with my style of play I utilize fold equity a lot, and so I would lose fold equity if my villains knew I'd run it twice.

So for me personally, running it twice is no bueno
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote
04-09-2014 , 06:59 PM
I can understand that, and if I played in games with more FE, I might have that concern. I find the opposite: it helps me get payed off, because people call my shoves with draws without the equity they need, because "I has two chances to hit my draw, so I'm twice as likely to win" <logic-fail FTW>

Bear in mind, this is in games where the V's actually believe that running it twice changes the EV and have strange debates about when it is to your advantage, and when to your disadvantage to run it twice.
To take deals or not? Does it affect in the long run? Quote

      
m