1/3, $500 max, 9 handed, Friday evening around 7pm.

V1 / UTG - 30's-40's WG. Never seen him before, but he seemed competent enough, judging by the way he was playing and the things he said. Had only been at the table for about an hour, so I hadn't seen him play too many hands. Starting around $500.

V2 / MP - 30's WG. Never seen him before either, but he'd mostly been playing TAG-ish, folding most hands pre or post, only occasionally opening with a raise. Hadn't seen him 3B prior to this hand. Couldn't remember him showing down anything good or bad. Couldn't remember him getting caught bluffing. Had only been at the table for about two hours, but didn't seem entirely comfortable. Starting around $350.

Hero / BTN - early 50's white guy. Absolutely killing it this session, up over $2K. Mostly just letting the game come to me, not doing anything overly aggro, at least not very often. Only occasionally using the power of the big stack to bully an opponent when I sensed weakness or uncertainty, but mostly just showing up with good hands. Starting around $2500.

OTTH...

V1 opens for $15. V2 3B to $50. Hero on BTN flat calls with JTss. All others fold.

FLOP ($150 net of rake) - JT5rb, with one diamond.

V1 x. V2 c-bets for $90, leaving himself about $200 behind.

Hero?

Hero opts to flat call, to see what develops, if V1 puts in an x/r, but otherwise expecting V2 to stick the rest of his chips in on the turn.

V1 folds, and we're HU and IP going to the turn.

TURN ($330) - JT5rb8dd, bringing in a BDFD, and completing Q9s or 97s. Really doubtful V2 is 3B'ing either of those hands pre-flop, but it's possible he might realize those hands are well within hero's BTN 3B-flatting range pre. He's probably capable of realizing hero could definitely have some 2P, some sets, and some 1P + a draw BS here.

V2 thinks for a few seconds, then sticks in the rest of his chips.

Hero?

is performance art at this point lol. pre signif worse in this one than the other one fwiw

Is this post a joke? Fold preflop. Once you flop this strong, do whatever as long as the money goes in.

Preflop fold. You should learn preflop strategy and focus on fundamentals instead of wasting our time making us read paragraphs of low-relevance player info before posting a basic preflop error

No joke.

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You should fold top two pair on the Turn getting 2.5 to 1 because the Villain could have 3-bet with 97.

Learn how to fold pre and you’ll be a significantly smaller loser at these stakes

What are you even hoping for with these threads? Why even go through the trouble of typing these endless OP's when you already know the responses are gonna be "fold pre, snap call as played". I mean, you don't really think you have an actual decision here (and in the KQ thread), do you?

By the way, on a night where I'm hitting everything I admit I wouldn’t be folding pre myself either, not without realizing I was doing something dumb, but still. It's all about discipline, and not showing enough of it is probably pretty common in the moments you're either winning a ton or losing a ton. At least that’s how it is in my case.

But yeah, I don't think this hand or the KQ one should be a thread and I'm surprised you think they should.

Is this a reverse HH thread (a no-no)? Cuz otherwise, yikes.

Gfoldpreflop,don'tfoldpostflop,andneitherisremotel yclose,imoG

I wouldn't post a reverse hand history, as I am aware of the prohibition against it.

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Well then I'm just super confused. Most of your HH responses (though sometimes longwinded, which I can also be accused of) seem decently thought out. But this HH is a trainwreck, imo.

Putting in a hugenormous ~15% of effective stacks preflop with J high, not to mention action still opened up for a possible 4bet by UTG, seems horrendous to me.

And considering folding at any point post flop with top two in a lol SPR 2 pot (again pointing to a huge mistake preflop) when our opponents range is likely 18 combos of QQ+ vs 2 combos of JJ/TT (and even completely ignoring airballs) seems equally horrendous.

GtakingthisHHatfacevalue,lol@me?G

Calling the 3bet pre is terrible, and you know that. Flop is fine, but I probably just gii. Obviously can't fold now.

I fold pre and it's not just me.

As played call, his range is mostly over pairs and maybe top set.

To be honest, DV, while I agree with fold pre, I can kinda see why you might occasionally speculate pre with JTs OTB lighting $50 on fire, since you're sitting on $2500, you have momentum, and you feel you have an advantage over the table. I would not advise it, but I have definitely been guilty of it on occasion, and I certainly wouldn't crucify you for it. I am super confident in my post-flop play, and sometimes a certain table dynamic makes it feel "right." Mathematically, effective stack size does not justify it.

As played, I will die on the hill of saying just shove flop. This is the whole reason you did what you did pre-flop. Keep being the table bully and let AA/KK etc doubt-call here.

Sometimes people need the hard truths or reminders of the obvious. If this helps his game going forward, isn't this why we're all here? I think there were some really good takeaways from this thread and the KQ one. Just keep bonking him.

I appreciate everyone's responses. I'm not entirely sure if the consensus is that JTs just isn't a good enough hand to call the 3B pre-flop regardless of stack depth, or if it's just not good enough because of the stack depth. I admit that I tend to make some loose calls pre when I'm IP and feel like I have a skill advantage over my opponents, especially when I'm deep stacked, as I was here.

As most here seem to agree, folding is not an option, when V's range is mostly over-pairs, and we're only losing to 1 combo of JJ and 1 of TT.

Pretty sure youll massively improve your wr if you just completely stop cold calling 3 bets pre. Flopped top 2 with spr 2, hmmmmmm.

I think its important to remember other players dont play like you (specifically, they 3 bet wayyyy too tight)

I was going to create a second thread for the 2nd confrontation with this V, but given the reaction to this thread, I thought it better to just add it as an epilogue here.

So...round 2...

In the same orbit, action folds to this same V on the BTN, who opens to $15. SB folds. With one seat now open between us, hero is in the BB with J9s, and defends. We're heads up to the flop with $30 in the pot.

FLOP ($30) - KJ9tt.

Hero x. V c-bets $20. Hero x/r's to $80. V flat calls.

TURN ($190) - KJ9ttXx - forget the exact card, but it was some low-middling brick.

Hero $250. V jams for a little less than $600.

If I wasn't going to fold top 2 before, I guess I'm not folding bottom 2 now, when V can have AA, AK, KQ, whatever. I snap call.

Duly noted (no sarcasm).

jus fold pre

rts

Dude, stop. We're not folding J9s in the BB to a BTN open.

What's your BB defense range?

i mean this is much much worse than the jt hand lol

This is a completely different situation. First hand you lose to 2 combos (JJ TT), this one you lose to at least 11 (KK JJ 99 QTs KJs). First hand you had spr of 2 otf, second hand spr was like 22 otf?

A call is bad vs V as described

Hand 1 is a fold preflop, and it is because of the stack depth. This is one of the first non-paired hands I’d try this with if I’m deep enough, but here we’re not.

Hand 2 if you are going to check-raise flop you can fold turn. You will have many better hands, including the nuts, that you can play this way with and then call the turn shove.

Honestly I’m probably not check-raising flop though.

It's a 5x raise, I'm not saying that I would always fold it but if your calling trying to flop a monster to stack him you may as well just fold. I would rather raise it then flat, and if I did flat it's not to try and hit a flop it would be against someone I know we can play creative against, not vs a total unknown, dude.