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Surprised at a call made against my A5 Surprised at a call made against my A5

08-12-2015 , 03:28 PM
5/5 underground game. Plays fairly big. A loose game generally, lots of big pots, insurance available. Generally a pretty soft game.

Hero (button): Sitting with $400. Consistent winner in this game. Seen as tight, somewhat aggressive. Rarely show down a dud.

Villain (big blind): Covers hero with $800 or so behind. Aggressive, but loose player. Played with him a handful of times.

Hero dealt A5 on the button. 4 limps in front. Hero calls. Villain in BB raises to $25 (small-ish raise in this game). All four limpers call. Hero calls.

Flop: J42.

Villain leads out $100. Folds to hero on button. Hero raises to $250, sensing weakness in villain.

Villain re-raises, putting hero all-in.

My frame of mind: To me, villain's range did not include aces. With as many limpers were in the pot, and knowing this game, villain would have known that a raise to $25 with AA would have had him in a 6-way, bloated pot where he'd be out of position to all players.

Didn't believe KK or QQ was in his range, either, for the same reasons mentioned pre-flop. Likewise, leading $100 bet wouldn't have suggested flopped set of kings in that spot, as aggressive as this game was. Would have expected a check-call or check-raise from him with KK in that spot, depending upon how much he wanted to deal with flush draws. Almost certain someone would bet behind him, especially since I am aggressive on the button.

Put villain on AK given the bet size, with a small chance villain had AJ. Didn't suspect AJ would raise out of BB in a pot of that nature, but can't put anything past players in this game.

Sensed weakness in villain's bet, as if he wanted to win a bloated pot right then. After villain's 3-bet, I only had roughly $100 remaining, and with the size of the pot and the number of outs I had, I was priced in to call, even if only drawing to inside straight.

Villain flips over AK, which was roughly what I expected. Did not believe villain would lead out $100 with a nut flush draw and two overs.

Very surprised that my bet did not move villain off of his hand. I thought my read was correct and that the chance of him calling that bet was small. Given that I called his raise on the button with four limpers calling, my range could have included roughly any pocket pair south of 10s, as well as a set of Js, AJ, J10, an open-ended straight draw. There are also a number of flush draws in my range. He has to know this.

Something like Ah5h was probably the only hand in a wide range that he could beat there, and even then, I have outs.

Perhaps I have some tell that I have no idea about, but I can't imagine he has that knowledge. We hadn't played a huge hand against one another.

Thoughts? I obviously got cute here for no reason in a game where just waiting on it is a sure way to make a lot of money, but I thought this was a spot where I get a fold most of the time.

How many people there are re-shoving AKo knowing they have basically zero fold equity in that spot?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 03:40 PM
Fold pre - you are not even 100bbs deep - this hand plays horribly post with this stack size ...

It does not sound like you have any concrete read on V other than he is loose... he raises and leads into 5 people for $100... doing anything but folding is pretty bad.

The fact that V showed up with AK kind of negates you eliminating AA, KK & QQ from his range. And why is AJ not raising out of the bb? It is like your suggesting only AK can raise here to $25 ... If he truely is a LAG without any other relevant reads , his range can include tons of hands including many of the Jx combos and all of the pps.

This is FPS and goes to show why we should be playing relatively straight forward at LLSNL - We got V to put it in post with A high .... only he had us crushed.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 03:43 PM
From villain's seat: I hold the Ace of spades, which denies a nut-flush draw as a potential holding for you. With position, I wouldn't expect you to raise a set against just one player. So from the villain's perspective, your range is pretty much bluffs, and single J's.

Maybe he thinks you're bluffing, or maybe he thinks he can push you off of a pair of Jacks. he's got 6 outs plus the back door flush, which is enough to call your raise to 250. And with the minimal amount remaining, he probably decided to shove and take advantage of whatever scraps of fold equity he might have.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 03:44 PM
Sometimes bluffs work and sometimes they don't. However, your bluff didn't really tell a story. What are you limp/calling here and then raising? He can only put you on 22 or 44, really, and sets are rare. He has two overs with the nut flush draw and you are less than 100bb deep.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC
Given that I called his raise on the button with four limpers calling, my range could have included roughly any pocket pair south of 10s, as well as a set of Js, AJ, J10, an open-ended straight draw. There are also a number of flush draws in my range. He has to know this.
If that's your range, then V played it great.

You probably fold some Jx to a 3-bet shove. When you call, V has 6 outs twice and three back door draws (low straight, high straight, nut flush). He has right around 30% equity if you happen to have a Jx hand like JT exactly.

22,44 are only 6 combos. You don't have JJ since you limped BTN.

Against a flush draw like KsQs, realize that V has 60% equity with AsKx. Against a non-dominated flush draw like 9s8s, V has > 50% equity.

Against an OESD like 53s, V has 50% equity.

Pretty sure if you look at the range above, V is making a shove that's easily profitable and combines some value with some fold equity.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 04:31 PM
PF call is fine, IMO. Flop raise is terribad. The V just bet out 2/3 pot into a field of 6 players on a wet-ish board. You ran into literally the nadir of his range. What's more, as others have stated, it would make little sense for you to raise this flop IP heads up with a value hand. You have only a few combo draws in your range (2xss; 35ss etc.) and he holds the As.

Finally, if you were going to raise, why would you not just shove instead of leaving a lol $100 behind? Pure spew.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC
5/5 underground game. Plays fairly big. A loose game generally, lots of big pots, insurance available. Generally a pretty soft game.

Villain (big blind): Covers hero with $800 or so behind. Aggressive, but loose player. Played with him a handful of times.
1 I think you find lots of loose calls just right here

2 doesn't seem like the type of player who's too fond of the b/f w your stack size

3 some of the other stuff you said is probably correct, maybe he does have a physical tell, maybe he's just a pow.

I think the important thing when you get a call like this is to start by asking yourself why. Don't immediately assume your opponent is a donk, but don't rule it out.

Also I think that in situations like this its often table dynamics vs your image (bc he might not be paying that close of attention) that really tell the story of what happened.

That might seem like I'm saying the same thing twice, but they're slightly different. What I mean by table dynamics is had he been winning a lot or losing a lot (same for you) LOTS of people have very predictable patterns I'm regard to what has happened in the past few orbits or so. In particular had he won several pots in a row or been bluffed/made a couple landown recently? (because he's likely not in a folding mood w anything he bets in this case) had you lost a couple pots recently? (maybe he feels like he can push you around harder, or that you were light or that he would just be luckier.)

Look closely at recent activity next time you see an uncharacteristic play from someone(or before you are planning to execute a bluff) normally it will tell you a lot more than what you learn from your perceived image or your perception of the opponent.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote
08-12-2015 , 06:19 PM
In addition to what everyone else is telling you, most of which I agree with, you should also consider the fact that your tell is the fact that you put more than half the effective stacks in with your flop raise, but didn't shove. Are you ever raise/calling with a hand that beats AK, but not shoving, with the stack size you started with?

Honestly, if you're going to conclude Villain is a donk, the $100 bet into so many people out of position is much better evidence than his 3bet. And if you feel like bluffing because you sense weakness, make it a shove next time. If you're not comfortable bluff-shoving, don't bluff at all.
Surprised at a call made against my A5 Quote

      
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