Hero hasn't shown anything out of line yet. Was playing a few speculative hands in late position due to high hand promotion and lousy players at the table.
Ended up crushing the table later on but this hand really bothered me. I played a little more solid after this hand - but couldn't really grasp if this was a call or fold.


Hero is BTN $200 effective with OMC and $125ish with LP (100BB)

Mid position villain - Plays a lot of hands - kind of a wild card but can fold to aggression

LP - OMC who limps a wide range but will shove when he has nuts and call with draws. Doesn't like to slow play

limps around to hero with has 53

Pot is $10

Flop is 632

Bet $10
Call $10
I raise to $25 (pair + gut shot and back door flush draw) Not a bad place to raise and I can rep a wide range but a little spewy since they are likely to call.


Turn is a J Pot 85

Check
Check
I bet $45

LP raises $61 more
Fold

Back to me........ Do I have the correct odds to call here no mater what his range is? I feel like I didn't so I folded but should I of called this bet?

Pot is 236 and I gotta call $61 more

I should of taken free card lol'

i'm at worst 6% - 9% vs 2 pair - pair + flush draw - but he could be much wider than that

Hi, I am still learning and would just participate in this discussion.

The immediate outs are as follows, two 3, three 5 and four 4 = 9outs.
I didn't count the backdoor flush in because that would take implied odds into consideration. So, ask yourself, would V pay me off if I hit my flush?

And as for the Flop raise, what is Hero trying to accomplish? Is it to raise for value? Or to raise for fold equity?

So, since hero believes that V are very likely to call the reraise, then if Hero could redo it, what would hero's decision be?

The Turn is a scare card, and Hero bets. What is hero trying to rep on this street? The J? Or could hero be trying to raise it up for value with the pair 3?

And since V reraised 2.5x, I would be folding in this position, with air, and a backdoor flush that isn't going to take place anytime soon, in this hand.
The Turn reraise is a strong move, imo. V could be holding onto stuff like, 45o/s, AXdd, since Hero's read on V is that V in LP doesn't like to slowplay, I would assume that V would be reraising OTF. And V "MIGHT" be reraising on the Turn to either, bluff, or for "value" with the AJ, KJ, QJ, any JX two pair hands.

As played, I would fold here and forget about anything such as possible calling ratios, because even if we do hit it, it's not the nuts, and calling here is a bad idea, because what if Hero hits it? Get it in? or what if Hero misses it completely and holds onto 5 high? bet / fold?

Just my opinions, please advise!

Won't let me multi quote but

1 yes - if I hit my hand is well disguised. I have a lot of turn cards i'm going to like to see. Heart - 3 - 5 - 4 -

2 - ???

3 - Turn changes nothing so if my pair of 3's is good on flop it's still good. Also because I did not get raised on a flush draw flop OMC has a drawing hand - and mid position has a wide range.

4 Hero has a pair of 3's - not 5 high.

53s for me is raise or fold. I don't fold in LA w limpers so raise.

We gin flop. Strandard half Potish cbet. Check back turn w equity or blocked flush potential.

You can see huge differentials in style that lead to awkward spot.

So AP, raise more otf. What are we scared and for a range that includes 76 A6 and over pairs? Really nothing. Those are reasonable and we don't evein care if we have even 10%fe which we always do.

Turn so weird ap. I almost feel like 3 betAI or so. What does he rep? I hate to break limped. But wth? He doesn't want to raise 45 a set or 2 pair otf?

There's no folds for us now as committed as we are and evidently drawing to a min of 12 near nut outs getting 5:1. We must decide if vil has folds here. Push if so, call and run good if not.

I see, just my opinions,

1- So Hero is going for a semi-bluff? Assuming V has the Flush draw, then the supposed outs excluding the backdoor heart draw is, 7outs.

So, let's say, including the hearts flush draw, which is a total of 16outs. Hero hits the flush, what hands does Hero put V on, that would pay Hero off? Would V continue with the big Turn bet Hero is going to bet, with the diamond flush draw? Or any pair OTF?

2-This one is really simple actually. Your bets MUST serve a purpose.

3-So, assuming Hero's pair 3 is good. Then why did Hero bet OTT? Wouldn't that be counter productive? Let's assume that V is chasing the diamond flush and isn't ready to let it go yet OTT, and we go to the River. The River is the diamond Flush, or any broadway, what is Hero going to do? Let's say, V makes a big bet.

4-Excuse me. LOL

ya this sounds good.

Probably just a fold pre but raise is better than limp

Not limping this hand on the button. I would raise a small amount of the time, and fold the rest.

Also, this flop is a pretty good one for hero. But it's clearly not 'gin'.

On the flop, I actually tend to fold, believe it or not, because I think it's a reverse implied odds situation, where I might make a good second best hand. There just aren't that many runouts that will help you without hurting you at the same time.

And so for me, the raise to $25 is pretty bad, a pot-builder type, in a situation where a good argument could be made that you don't want a big pot.

And, yeah check back the turn so you can play the river IP.

I don't think any of this is horrible, and I wouldn't beat myself up over it. But I think these are small pot hands that we rarely want to show down, and should be played as such.

In my case, I play these hands for the implied odds, so, ceteris paribus, I flat as long as that fits my overall PF strategy.

Is this 1-3? What happened to the buttons? Not sure how the pot is $10 preflop.

I don't mind the limp either, but you're not hoping for a gutshot and pair here. You're playing for two pair, trips, a made straight or flush, or strong draw, although you have to worry about being the baby flush or the idiot end of the straight. There are plenty of straight draws I don't have much interest in pursuing even if I'm technically open-ended. Even if I hit a flush I'm not that interested in building a big pot. Who is going to play along if not for a bigger flush?

I don't feel like doing the math but you have to understand it's very, very improbable you hit a hand that is both strong and not at huge risk of being beat by a higher straight/flush; if you hit it you're well disguised and can try to make a nice ransom. If you were any shorter it wouldn't be worth playing. It's probably not worth playing anyway, but it's cheap and might be amusing.

I would fold the flop. Long-term you're just going to bleed money here.

I should add that I'm probably wrong! But this is how I'd approach that hand.

Flop is a fold.
Back door flush isn't as good with the two flop diamonds as you represent more bluffs when you barrel a turn heart. A 5 can give someone else a straight and a 4 is not a disguised straight at all. If I were to raise, definetely dont raises to $25, you have very low fold equity and are just building a pot with a poor hand

pre - not a fan

flop - all options kinda suck. our hand has a bit too much potential to fold, but calling tends to foster minimum wins when we hit, or lose big

therefore i slightly favor raising to $50ish and shoving a lot of turns that can improve us, either outright or w/perceived outs

embrace the variance...

as an aside rant,