Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
stratle <img /NL -EV? stratle <img /NL -EV?

05-05-2011 , 09:47 AM
I have never been one to stratle in cash game. I personally think that its counter productive for a solid poker strategy b/c you are commiting yourself (partially) to a pot where you only have position pre-flop, and are quarenteed to be oop in later betting rounds (unless against blinds). Along with the fact that you will have no idea what holdings you will have, personally I don't see stratling being +EV with my strategy.

I do however see many players stratling with at least appearant success. So question- Is it possible to stratle consistantly with longterm +EV?
If yes- is the +EV when analyzing the stratles in a vacuum? or are the benefits/profits from matagame consequences?
Also if yes what is a good balance/range for raising or checking your option? And what is proper bet sizing?

stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 10:16 AM
Straddling helps give off a looser gambool image IMO, I will but still play TAG, depends on the table though. If its a tight table Ill straddle to try and loosen up the table if its already loose I usually dont.
As for checking/raising It again depends on the players for me, loose passive players come along Im raising, If its getting raised majority of the time I may flat with medium holding, but im not going to keep straddling if thats the case.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 10:46 AM
proper spelling is + EV

But in all seriousness I agree that it gives off a looser image, which can be helpful depending on how you play. I personally love straddling but refuse to do it when I'm stuck.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 10:54 AM
Straddle is -EV but good for meta game image, especially if you straddle for 4x BB.

When you play against a straddle, bet large enough to iso the straddle if possible. DO NOT CALL A STRADDLE!
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 11:31 AM
I straddled the other day when me and a couple other guys convinced the whole table to do it. One Chinese guy wouldn't but he had like 30bb so w/e. Otherwise, no I don't do it. It's only +EV when everyone at the table does it. By +EV I mean that it loosens up the game, the actual act of straddling is 0EV if everyone is doing it and is equally skilled.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 11:46 AM
Never thought of it as a tactic to loosen up the game and create a more favorable table image. Next time I am at tight table or no one is giving me any action because of my tight image I am going to give it a whirl.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 11:51 AM
Straddling is like volunteering to be the 3rd blind while paying twice as much as the BB. If BB is -EV, straddling is definitely -EV.

I don't think it does much for meta game, but I know this player that does this consistently while trying to look loose.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 12:36 PM
Meh. If you want to loosen up your image, you'd be much better off open raising when it is checked to you in LP with ATC (vs tightish / fitfold blinds) and getting to showdown a hand or two like that.

Ghasneverstraddledasinglehandinhislife,andyettheys tillpaymeoffG
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 01:03 PM
Is straddling in a 3-4-5 handed game +EV because of the position you'll have post-flop? You'll be playing bigger pots when you're in position and smaller pots when you're out of position.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 01:25 PM
Straddle can be very + EV if done in proper circumstances. You have to understand what straddle does:
1. It buys you position pre-flop which is great if you are outplaying most of the tables and want to get into many cheap-ish pots. Yes, you will be OOP from the flop but if you are beating the table it won't matter that much.
2. It makes the game much more expensive (mind that first raise will be around 15 instead of 7) which will punish anyone who is not comfortable with money (which is much more common than you would think).
3. Since it's a blind bet, it will generate more action on the table which is also good for you (again given that you are beating the table).
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 01:29 PM
One reason to straddle that I haven't seen brought up but I believe is true is that it allows people who aren't that good post flop gamble for bigger money. If everyone has 100BB, a straddle turns the game to 50BB. A raise pf will leave little room to do anything but play on the flop or fold.

Of everyone believes they are geniuses post flop. It allows them to look like they are a "player" while hiding that they aren't really that good.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 01:35 PM
Good point Venice.

To add: If you're at a table that is straddling, your specific straddle may be -EV; however, if it upholds the continuity of straddling at the table, that's 2 extra bb you have to put in each round in order to get 9 villains to make -EV moves for themselves. If you're sitting on a stack of 75-100bb, getting it in is going to be much easier for you when you have a good hand regardless of your position at the table.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 03:53 PM
Is us straddling vs not straddling really going to have an affect on whether other people straddle or not? I mean, at my typical table there is sometimes upwards of ~3 people who straddle most orbits. Whether I straddle or not (I don't) has zero affect on this. Which means I get to reap both benefits of (a) not getting myself into the specific -EV of a individual straddle (which it always is) while (b) getting to play a lotta against players who have put dead money in the pot OOP with lol stack sizes / pumped the pot for me when I decided to play a hand (thanks so much for that).

They're gamblooors. They were going to straddle anyways, whether we do or not.

Gstraddlevirgin,andlookingtokeepitthatwayG
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 04:45 PM
where do they offer this?
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 04:54 PM
I generally don't straddle because building pots out of position before I see my cards is not really my game plan. I will of course do it for Meta game purposes or to loosen up the table.

I also will do it if I can get the guy sitting 3 to my left to agree to do it with me because building pots in position after I see my cards is in my game plan.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-05-2011 , 05:02 PM
As Venice alluded to, straddling changes the depth of the game. Strategy-wise if people play postflop poorly, by straddling, they reduce your edge because your flexibility postflop gets constrained by the larger pot size. However, you get gain by adjusting your preflop selection and capitalize on people playing too loose preflop in straddled pots.

Which is the bigger edge - table dependent. But playing preflop better is a lot easier than playing postflop better.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-06-2011 , 05:31 AM
Mississippi straddle > UTG straddle
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-06-2011 , 06:09 AM
if ur a pro dont straddle.

im a rec. player and i dont straddle all the time but if i feel like i got a good read on the table ill straddle for a few orbits.

its fun but then again i dont depend on poker for a living.

also i almost never straddle in 3/5, just 2/2. and if there was a mississippi starddle here id do it all the time.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote
05-07-2011 , 07:35 PM
i think straddling on the button can be +ev or neutral. I'm not sure how to figure that out though, but it def can't be that -ev to straddle on the button.
stratle <img /NL -EV? Quote

      
m