UTG+1: Short stack. Clueless
MP: Will chase any draw for any price. Will call any 2 cards pre flop. Only raises premiums (from what I saw).
CO: Solid, Tight. When he bets, he usually has it. Generally will not 3 bet unless nuts.
Me: Aggrotard.

UTG+1 is short stack with $175. MP, not realizing UTG+1 has yet to act goes to open big (Looked like $60) in a straddled pot. (there was a fold between them). UTG+1 kept hiding his cards and this happened at least 3 times…not sure if angle or idiot).

Seeing this, UTG+1 shoves all in. MP calls (with ~600 behind). CO calls (~400 behind). I had A K on button and have no clue what to do. Best option by a mile prob to fold, distant second best to shove. So I call. (I have everyone covered).

Flop: Q Q 5
Checked around.

Turn 7

MP checks. CO bets 135. I call after a lot of deliberation (not an act... Visions of QQ are racing thru my head, but I tell myself to stop being such a Tilly, so I call. MP calls. My head explodes.

River is a blank and MP bets $300. CO folds after deliberation and I...

folding pre is probably the best option. your only going to get to see the flop most the time, and you probably have very little io, and definitely some rio if a K flops and you up against AA.

This. Especially if ur folding on that board. Even bad nits can spaz out with aq here

you might want to learn about combinatorics OP. There's only one QQ.

My first response on 2+2, but if you called preflop, called the turn, why are we folding a blank river?

Because .05 seconds after my chips hit the felt pre I thought the call was awful (and truthfully before that as well, but was temporarily blinded by the button and "odds" I thought I saw w/o really thinking it through.)

The only boards I could feel comfortable with are TJQ, AAx or KKx (as long as x <10), or flush/flush draw. I can't even bet (or call) a lone A or K with confidence. Every paint card is scary. I hit my hand about as hard as you can hit it and still had to fold.

With 2 callers on that turn someone has to be huge, and no hand other than QQ makes sense to me, particularly with the 300 river stop n go. AKs has to be in COs range (and not really as much in mine, despite my holding), but when I call I think AQ has to proceed with caution and check/fold to any river action.

If MP folded turn then it's an easy call/shove on river.

jam > fold > call pre imo.

AP river is a call, V could just be playing his read on you too.

Is this a level?

I thought that too

I think after we make the PF call. Then call again on the flop looking for a spade, the only option is to call here and chalk it up to a bad beat.

This is a big level,
Not worth to even read it,

AK

Wish it were a level. There is a reason I play 2/5. Got some holes in my game.

shove or fold pre

Thought it was a level

just remembered why I rarely read strat posts any more. having just read the KKK thread and now this one, it only reaffirms that yes folks.....

there's no money to be made in live poker

Grunch (w/o spoiler): this is a fold pre, but an easy ship once you've called. QQ just so unlikely. 12 combos of AA/KK versus 1 combo of QQ. We have good equity and should have some fold equity since they have to hate this board. Plus, given villain description AK/AQ is likely in the mix (making this virtually a flip).

As played (checked through flop, facing flop bet) flat is fine on turn, raise all-in river. Never fold after hitting turn. That's lunacy.

Also, so many bad posters in this forum. I think this is an easy spot, but so what? This is the low-stakes forum. People posting here are trying to improve.

A shove by a short stacker in early position and then a call before it gets to you is one of those rare times I think it's okay to fold pre. Then on the flop you have a pair on the board and your drawing to a flush? You made a good fold, but you could have folded pre here I think and saved a lot of money. Your rarely ahead by that pre flop action.

Here are my thoughts on situations like this.

Preflop: When we have AK and there is serious action preflop and calling the preflop action is going to lead to a pot that is 1/3rd or more of our stack, then calling preflop is ******ed. Either shove or fold. The wider and more spewy our villains are the more we should be shoving. The more decent and TAGish/ABC-ish our villains are and the more their 3-bet range weighs towards QQ+/AK we should be folding.

Flop: Once we call pre and we see this flop, there should be a sonic boom due to our chips streaking into the pot with a trail of fire behind it.

Turn: Once we call any action on flop, our money should be in this pot so fast that observers would think that our chips magically teleported into the pot.

Basically, you can't call with this sort of hand, hit this sort of flop/turn and THEN get tiny testicles and decide to fold. Seriously, do an EV calculation on this scenario and you will see that once you make it this far, folding is so bad that it should physically make you ill.

Lastly,

Whenever we are faced with a difficult decision and don't quite know what to do and this occurs BEFORE we are required to put any significant money into the pot, then for the love of god we need to be folding. Then later, do some EV calculations and poker stove to figure out the best line...

Biggest stack is 120 bbs? Just jam pre.

As for the question you're asking you're the only one who can answer. You're the only one who was there and knows what MP's grabbing a lot of chips to bet with pre then calling a shove means. You're also the only one who knows what his checking flop then betting small into a dry side pot and two players means.

From the information everyone here has you played this pretty bad and should have gotten all in preflop or on the river, however I've been in similar circumstances where I've made the correct hero fold. Nice fold, but it's impossible for anyone not there to agree with it. It's called a hero fold for a reason.

Thanks all for input, especially dgi and bluegrass.

I have no illusions about how horribly I played this hand. I think I misplayed every street except MAYBE the river. Assuming I don't lay the button here (which I think is the correct play) getting stacked probably has the highest EV (and no, not joking).

I'm not going to post a hand or situation that I think I played perfectly or something just to make myself look good. I'm generally going to post a situation I feel I effed up, and get some input on perhaps how not to make one bad decision early in a hand snowball it absolute spew (a la this hand).

Good news is, I learn from my mistakes and won't be making this one again. I'm not afraid to play the clown or look silly with what may appear a rudimentary question. Any input I get makes me a little better.

FWIW the hands that generally give me the most thought are generally those surrounding small pots or (what may appear to be marginal) decisions. Big pots tend to play themselves, with a few exceptions. I am trying to figure out how to turn these marginal plays into moneymakers.

Being afraid to ask the dumb questions will just lead me to keep making the same boneheaded plays over and over.

I'm only a troll in the appropriate forums. When it comes to strat posts/questions I respect the rules of the forum in which I am posting.

Be prepared for future stupid questions/scenarios. While I usually try to make my posts a little lighthearted, I assure you the questions posed will be real.

And the good news is, there is always a seat open on my right just ripe for picking off the king of fish. Ask Berge... He's been there. I may be a tad spewy.

/end wall of text

What was result?

It can only be QQ 1way. It can be AA 3 ways. KK 3 ways. AQ 6 ways.

Using this insanely nitty range this still is a jam by the turn AINEC.

We like to pride ourselves when we correctly put our villains line on quads. I've done it several times. But I've also done it several times (putting my villains on nutted ranges) and been completely off. We don't remember these times.

That's why it's better to think through likely ranges and call/fold/raise based on this more objective perspective.

Dgi murdered this post..../thread.

pre i reraise to iso and pick up dead money and get it in

on theflop i bet to iso andget it in


as played i call