1/2 NL holdem Straddle=5 Double Straddle=10 Triple Straddle=20

So V offers to double straddle if I straddle. I am confident that this situation is not profitable since I am still putting in money and will be most likely in a bad position for the rest of the hand. But...

what if V1 offers to double straddle and V2 offers to triple straddle if I straddle, would this be +EV...?

Obviously it would be better for my image to agree to either of the straddles but more from just a strategic sense that the players will not adjust accordingly with the effective stacks being like 10BB's for this hand.

Anyways ive seen this situation a few times and was wondering

My instinct is definitely.

You're putting in x blind, everyone else puts in 6.5x blind, you have excellent preflop position (the importance of postflop position is sharply reduced given how effectively shallow we are) and presumably you have a skill edge (nobody has any clue about how to play a 10BB stack preflop even though you'd think it would be pretty hard to get wrong.) I think I would actually prefer to be the straddle than the BB in this spot.

I think just the double straddle would be -ev. Interesting question.

No, by someone double straddling, this absolutely does not make your original straddle +EV.

In fact just the opposite. There is now more money in the pot making your straddle more of a target so you are likely to play a bloated pot OOP.

The double (or triple straddle) makes your -EV move more of a -EV move.

On a side note, if you happen to find yourself in a 5 handed game with a double straddle, you should triple straddle.

I disagree with this analysis. If somebody makes an -EV move then it will make your original -EV move less -EV and in some cases could turn it into +EV. I can't think of a single situation where an opponent making an -EV move decreases your EV.

A very contrived example: You're playing heads up and you volunteer to put an extra $10 in the pot every hand if your opponent agrees to put in an extra $20. Obviously that's +EV for you.

In the OP situation I share the feeling that the triple straddle scenario is worth it but not the double straddle. I also agree that it will depend on stack sizes, we want to be shallow enough so that position isn't too great of a disadvantage.

Not sure about the math, but I think it's good for the game and anything good for the game is +EV.

Definitely +EV if you know how to play straddles and understand spr, etc. Possibly -EV if you aren't comfortable with bigger games.

This is only a problem if we're deep. With 100bb effective, once there's a raise pre (or a bunch of limpers), position becomes a lot less relevant.

It does decrease the probability of seeing the flop for "free," meaning we're going to be folding pre and losing $5 very often. It's a question of how many additional straddles there need to be for the extra dead money to make up for that. Clearly, if there are four straddles after us (10/20/40/80), we're in a very +EV situation.

The word "bloated" tilts me. It basically means "I'm scared/I don't know what to do in big pots", and then the suggestion is to avoid any action that could possibly make a big pot.

What's the difference between playing a 5bb pot OOP and a 50bb pot OOP if everyone's ranges are identical?

(besides, in this scenario specifically we're either going to be jamming or folding preflop)

In a vacuum it seems -EV to me. Beyond that, it seems very +EV.

Disclaimer is I only recently started playing in a game where restraddles were allowed.

That heads up scenario isn't a fair comparison because position has been eliminated from that scenario (alternating between the blind and the button)

As far as not being able to think of a scenario where an opponent making a -EV move decreases your EV:

You straddle UTG which is a -EV move. Then UTG+1 restraddles. The best player at the table is deep stacked and on the button.

The restraddle is putting more dead money into the pot making your original straddle more likely to be targeted by the good player in position.

You also lost your option to act last preflop.

That scenario, IMO, takes a -EV situation (UTG straddle) and makes it worse.

That doesn't mean anything close to being scared.

It is a preference. I prefer to play a big pot in position vs OOP.

I also prefer AA to JJ but I am far from afraid to play pocket jacks.

And unless I misread the OP, he isn't specifically asking about short stacks.

The only place I can restraddle is an uncapped game where we are often 300+ BB deep.

In that game I feel it is -EV to straddle UTG even if I know it will get restraddled.

If we are playing a short sacked game, I still am not sure you can call the 1st straddle +EV but it is a better EV spot than if done in a deep stacked game IMO.

Bolded implies that we're 100bb deep. I 100% agree that the shallower we are, the more we like getting a couple of restraddles; I don't think anyone would dispute that.

To start with, anytime you add money to a pot with ATC and being oop is -EV with all things being equal. Let's ignore the meta-game for now. If someone double straddles you, you have some potential additional equity because there is more dead money in the pot. If we are at a 10 player table and we assume we have an equal share of the added equity, you gain about $0.60. However, it is going to cost you $5 to even keep that equity going to the flop. When you add in that you're going to play oop, your increased equity is even less. It doesn't get better with more straddlers. Remember until people give up their equity, you don't have it at the time you make your decision.

Nor is it guaranteed that if someone loses equity, you can gain equity. Take the simple example of 77 vs. AKs pf. 77 has a 52/48 advantage. If we add AA to the mix, 77 drops to 20%. However, AKs doesn't gain any equity. It drops to 11%.

position doesn't matter in this situation, it is going to be shove or fold.

I would put the 5 straddle and get ready for the ev+ variance train

20 BB poker gross. Think there is a whole forum dedicated to that.

Got to many tournament donks in the thread.

Great thing about live cash. Is stacks get deep quickly. As a skilled player it gives us a bigger edge.

Only way I ever agree to this. Is if I think it is gonna dump whole lot of money on table. Let 4 or 5 guys rebuy. Then I would stop straddling, and play 2-300 BB deep with a crew of players who can't play deep.