1/3 1k cap match stack.

1k effective stack


Villain: young asian who was playing very splashy for months, but has recently adopted a fairly TAG play style. Assuming he lost enough that he either had to learn to get better, or actually knew he was playing splashy and lost enough to stop that ****. Not a good TAG as in 3betting properly preflop and maximizing post flop. I guess more of a semi-abc player/tag....but definitely not close to a crusher.

He has definitely been folding more than he used to. I've had a few big hands over the last week or two against him where he didn't pay off more than a street or two. Hasn't stacked off light that I have seen lately.



Hero is UTG straddle $10. Kc4c

+1 calls
MP calls
Villain in HJ calls
CO calls
BTN: calls

Hero: I will raise here at a small frequency when I'm BTN straddle with a hand this weak, but playable. In UTG straddle, I decide not to make this pot any larger. It's not uncommon for limp/raises in these spots in this game.


Pot: $60

Flop: Jd 6c 2s

Checks around

Turn: Jd6c2s 3c

Checks to Hero
Hero Checks
MP bets $25
Villain calls $25
folds
Hero calls 25


Pot: $135

River: Jd6c2s3c 8c


Hero: I felt like it might be a bit too obvious if I lead here. My plan was to c/r any stabs.

Hero checks
MP checks
Villain: Bets $100


Hero:


So, this was a larger bet than I expected.


My only concern with a raise here, since it's a BDFD completing.......I'm not sure if there is a chance villain will 3bet with a lower flush and possibly be bluffing with what he thinks is the best hand. Also, he can definitely have nuts here.


Are you guys c/r here or just calling?

With the straddle on, I fee like described V would have raised all his NFD combos preflop from the HJ. He might have even raised turn with NFD combos with wheel gutshots too.

Therefore, I'm raising river against this V on this runout.

Def betting turn, tons of 2p combos you can have that basically no one else has. Def raising this river, V prob only has 4 hands that beat you as AcTc+ all prob raise pf.

Turn: This would be a good c/r spot to $150~. How strong can MP and V be after checking flop?

River: I'm raising 3.5x here. We have to go for value and cross the river 3! bridge if we come to it.

Btw, this line looks super strong from us. And the same super strong c/r line would have worked on the turn. What's the point of playing a match the stack game if we're not using our stack?

Agree with raising turn. How does V see H? Seems as if V respects H, so what do you guys think he'll call a river raise with?

I suck at deepstack.

I wouldn't straddle. Wow, is that a $10 straddle?

I'm also just seeing a flop.

I'm also checking (to fold) the flop.

In a 6way pot, I think I'm fine just check/calling the turn. With fewer opponents I might attempt a semi-bluff myself, but eleventeen ways this is just never going to work.

I just donk the river. This scare card gets checked around far too often by hands that will consider paying off a bet, and meanwhile people are less likely to bluff multiway. I probably go like 1/2 PSB attempting to get paid off.

As played, I'm probably ~min-clicking it back and folding to a re-raise.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Raise to $300-350 and call a jam.

On the turn, it is really tough to realize equity out of position, and yet here are the other players laying you an excellent price for your action-closing call.

It is good that we had a plan going into the river. Now that our plan has come together,(*) we should stick to it. Pick an amount that you think villain holding J8 or 88 would call -- maybe $250 - $300?

AP trivial raise to something like 350, I don't think you get any credit for a bluff but I'd be shocked if he didn't have the flush or if he could fold it to a standard 3-4x raise.

Check/calling the turn is pretty bad imo, I'd bet pot, but AP 100% xr squeeze that weak 25 bet. As said above, you have all the junky 2p, even stuff like 62o, J2o, not to mention the infinite straight combos nobody else should have. Even overbet probing is a good option imo, but the xr has to be big, 150 at the very least.

I also don't get raising K4s over limpers from the button straddle, in my experience people usually don't limp/fold near as much as they 'should' and the hand clearly favours high SPR. If I played in an imaginary game where people actually limp/fold somewhat often, I'd rather raise really polar with stuff like K4o, that doesn't have much EV anyway. But in my experience is you don't have to think about balance at all, just stick to old school handplaying, the villains limping usually don't think about anything other than their own hand and seeing a flop.

Results:

Hero wasn't sure exactly what to do if we faced a 3 bet. Probably should have taken more time.


Hero calls.

Villain has Q high flush for 3rd nuts.



Still not sure if this should have been a raise/call or a raise/fold. I didn't do the douchebag "what would you have done if I raised" after winning the pot.


If he never 3 bets here without nuts, I didn't leave an extreme amount of value on table. If he does, then it's a blunder. I'm not sure which though.

Example of a hand a week or two ago in this same game (also game plays pretty deep, so you still have fairly high SPR's.....most of the time)


Hero BTN straddles $10 with A3hh

Several limps

Hero raises (low frequency) to $40

3 callers.

Flop: 7 3 3r


Villain (not same from above) open shoves for $400

Folds

Hero calls verbally hoping V doesn't have 77.

Villain has AQ

Villain says "I shoved because you're a good player who raises with good hands. I figured there's no way you have any of that."




So, while yes, I agree balance isn't a huge deal......it does still matter even at the lowest stakes.


I will lean well into the more value side at LLSNL, but you can print money playing a fairly balanced strategy even at these stakes.

I would bet call river. People don’t usually bet this without a flush.

A3s is a much better hand, that's just a pure valuebet vs loose people never limpreraising and playing bad post. That is a good raise.

I don't think you should ever be doing low frequency stuff in these games. A hand is never indifferent vs people who limpcall, their strategy is just full of leaks, you shouldn't ever aim to be balanced.

The hand history is fun, but I don't think this justifies having low frequency 3x in your 5way iso pot range lol. First of all, villain's play is nonsense, he probably spews in all lines imaginable, it's not like you can only get him this way. And you can easily just snap him off with overpairs, because his line makes zero sense with good hands. So you don't get ran over because 1/3 fish abuse their trips advantage (they also couldn't really do that in theory because of the other limp calling fish in the pot).

A 3bet on the river is the nuts 99% of the time, especially at these deep stack depths, making it a pretty easy fold.

GimoG

If you raise to like $300-$350, if he jams on you, just call it off. You have the second nuts. It's too strong not to raise, too strong to fold facing a 3bet. Are you only going to call off with the nuts?

If he overbets pot then we can think about just calling.

Again, maybe my game just plays a whole lot differently than a lot of others, and it certainly can be the case if your game always plays very deep with lottsa $1000+ stacks flying around all the time. In my game, a large $300 raise on the river is only getting 3bet for hugenormous $1000+ stacks by the nuts. I mean, seriously, we think the 3rd nuts is doing this? No, they are debating whether to sigh call to see the bad news versus making the extremely difficult / disciplined fold.

Ggamedependent,soknowyourgame,imoG

This mentality is a huge mistake. Sometimes you have to go for it. You are very likely to be called by any flush. And you would be facing less than a pot sized raise if you get 3bet. We cannot be afraid to stack off and get coolered here. It's going to happen sometimes.

I'm not sure if you misunderstand my line: I'm totally on board with a raise (as I do believe we will get called by any other flush a huge amount of the time). But any other flush isn't shoving for this amount (they're just calling); calling a shove for this amount is quite poor against all but the most maniacal/clueless, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm guilty of not raising rivers in these spots enough but I find a c/r here. Look at the Acxc combos. AQ/AJ/AT/A9/A7/A5. Of these any reasonable tag is raising pre from HJ with at least half of these combos and probably 4 out of 6. A5 is probably betting turn. So the majority of nut flushes are ruled out most of the time. There are more Qx/Jx combos that are plausible.

I'd be greedy and c/r an amount that will get called by a Q high flush. So maybe $275 or $300.

I think Mlark's point is less "We have to call a shove" and more "Even if we have to stack off and get coolered, we're still making money because of how much more often V calls us with worse flushes."

For what it's worth, I think a bet/raise/3bet river spot is actually super interesting because if we take a closer look at the hand, I think we'd have a very hard time giving V a lot of AcXx combos, and I don't think he can bluff the river without them. Like young asian ABC TAG's generally aren't overlimping Ac4x or whatever, or any offsuit aces imo. Like we really don't lose to much at all (again, I count 4 combos but if y'all can find more lmk) but it's such a hard spot for V to find any bluffs at all without him just randomly turning into a damn maniac. In fact, more I think about an ABC TAG's overlimp range the more I think we get to blast off against this guy. Like what if we took all of our Ac4x, Ac5x, nut flushes and second nut flushes and blasted $600 into this guy? How doesn't that print?

With UTG straddle at 10, and effective stacks ~1000, this is not deep stack, rather a regular 100bb game (more like a 5/10 than the original 1/3, but still..).

At this stack depths, we cannot be afraid of gii with the 2nd nuts.

I don't mind just calling ott, and also checking river seems ok at some frequency. However, we definitely check to c/r and call a shove.

This is not how anyone at the table views things: they view it as being $1000 deep in a 1/3 NL game. So OP will have to decide how often people get in $1000 stacks in his 1/3 NL game and what they are doing that with. I don't keep track of this sorta thing, and my memory admittedly sucks, but I'm fairly positive I haven't seen a single $1000 stack go into the middle in my 1/3 NL game so far in 2023. To think that someone is going to do that with the Q high flush facing a big river raise when both the A high flush and K high flush is possible is absurd in my game. OP will have to decide how absurd that is in his game.

GcluelessgamedependentnoobG

Yeah. Exploitatively I might even just check jam any AcXx I have vs an unknown. If it was vs regs I play more often with then I would consider that with nutflushes, maybe second nut flushes as well. Banking on a player folding smaller flushes in that spot because either they are a weaker player or they won't think I would do that without the nuts and they are exploiting me.

The absurdly huge overbet jam with the nutflush blocker on an unpaired board works a ton.

I think a key point here is that you hold the second nuts so he either has the nuts or at best the 3rd nuts. If he has the Q high flush he’s gotta be worried about the A and K and anything lower has to worry about more. All this is to say that it will extremely hard for him to 3 bet a worse flush as a valuebluff since you can have better flushes so you can pretty confidently raise here

i mean if he 3bets (given our cards) its going to be nut flush or air lol unless hes clueless. i dont see how having the second nuts matters. probably our river xring range is kxcc+. im not necessarily advocating a fold but i dont really think this is a spot where villains range is super wide or anything when stacks go in. its a multiway limped pot on a 3 flush board where very little money has gone in before the river