1/2 NL 3am Parx. Hero is a 40 ish white male. Villain is a 20 something clean cut white male who sat down about half an hour ago. Hero has been playing a moderate number of hands, always raising to twelve, and aside from a few continuation bets, not getting too involved. Villain is immediately to Hero's right, has been playing tight and has 3 bet Hero a couple of times and ended up winning without a showdown.

The Table limps around to Villain on the button who limps in. Hero in the small blind has 78 of hearts and raises to 12. Several people call and Villain raises to 35. Hero opts to call. My reasoning was that the raise after a limp from the button was very suspicious. I did not think he had a premium hand. I considered raising him, but felt with suited connectors I would be better off with a call.

Pot size now about $100.

The flop comes up 8,9,10 rainbow. I check to Villain who bets $50. I read this as a standard continuation bet and opt to push all in for approximately $120 more (I had Villain covered). My reasoning was that (1) I thought I may be ahead, and (2) if I wasn't, I had probably 8-10 outs to a winning hand. So with about a 32-40% chance of winning if I was behind, plus the fold equity, I felt this was the right move.

Thoughts on my play?

What's the reason for raising pre? Just limp and take a flop. No reason to raise to 12. One person calls behind you and everyone is going to tag along... That's how $1/$2 works. Just put in your $1 and see a flop.

Really just trying to build the pot a little. I figured most would come along, and I wanted something more than $10 in the pot if I connected. Plus, I like to raise in some of these situations to create a bit of a looser image and gets me called more when I have a stronger hand and harder for opps to put me on a particular range. With suited connectors, you figure you have twice the chances to connect on the flop, so not a bad time to pot build.

You put $35 out of your approximately $155 stack in pre flop with 8 high, this part is pure spew. Your post flop check raise is fine.

Generally I would agree and would rarely do this. But what could Villain have that he would opt to just limp in from the button? I felt this was a pure steal attempt and that Villain could have almost any two cards here and definitely NOT a premium hand.

He has position and an spr too low for you to take advantage of his wide pre flop range

You might be right, but you can't combat that by flatting the l/rr for 1/5 of your stack, oop w/ 8-high. If you think villain is completely FOS, you're better off shoving.

I would have just called the $1 pre.

Def should not have been raised in the first place, but considering it was, does anyone like a 4-bet jam here? 99% of the time, this vil is not gonna make this play with JJ+ and will fold anything else (including some odd-played AK). Why is he calling on the button and then 3-betting?

whole hand reeks of spew.

I don't think your ever going to fold anyone out pre, so you are bloating the pot OOP + do you think he is ever folding flop with how much already in there + your stack size? you are pretty much getting in your money behind most of the time. Either call pre or make your sizing a lot bigger pre otherwise everyone just tagging along

In retrospect, I like that play better. Can't see how he can possibly call a 4 bet jam here, and there is about $60 of money in the pot. low risk, decent reward.

So here is how it played out...

Just complete action. Never raise here. Only way we could ever combat raising here is if most of the table is 200bbs deep and you've established a tight image and want to switch to loose image.

Should of shoved pre. Use dead money from other $12 calls to make up variance, and use fe as +ev due to him just limping otb.

Again with the call from SB. Your goal in poker isnt to randomly build pots with air and hope that you spike the flop. Your goal is to always raise for value, to get weaker hands to call. The reason we sometimes raise 78s is to balance our range so people dont always know we have the nuts. This way the question in their minds is "does he have AA or 78s?". That is the only reason we raise speculative hands preflop. It has nothing to do with "building a pot".

The only time I would ever even raise from the SB would be as a pure bluff against a button limp in an unopened pot. The logic is that limping the button is bad, so if it's heads up, I will raise 78s just because he limped the button and I immediately label him as a weak player. My goal at this point is to just bluff or get lucky. If villain were to ever limp raise the button then he's representing strength. But nobody would ever limp the button with a strong hand, so I would probably 4bet him because I still consider him to be a weak player just making a weak stand.

But when you said 5 people limped ahead of him, this is absolutely 100% NEVER EVER EVER a raise from the small blind. Even if you were to get lucky and hit a good flop, you are now playing a draw out of position which sucks balls for so many reasons I wont even bother to get into it.

Grunch:

Bring a lighter. Set yourself on fire so that you not only light the money on the table on fire but also whatever you had in reserve because it too will likely be on fire by the end of the night.


Moral: Spew in every conceivable way.

Second moral: This isn't a complete pre. It's not. All saying complete have a hole in their game.

O Rly? You're not completing with 78s in the sb multiway in a typical loose/passive live game?

If you're not brain dead post flop, this is a standard complete

You got yourself in a bad spot raising 87 OOP. You said u wanted to build a pot if you connected but that's isnt something you should be trying to do in the worst post flop position. Doing this IP it would be ok sometimes but never out of the SB.

I think your logic on v being weak makes sense but the decision to flat doesn't make any sense. Flatting just leaves him with position post flop making it very tough for you to play this profitably long term. Play this scenario 100 times and ask yourself how many times will you win after flatting the 3b and playing OOP post.

If you arent calling with 78s getting 9:1 under every circumstance then you have a hole in your game.

Sorry guys. It's not a complete. What are you hoping to flop? 569? It's not profitable. Hands down, not profitable.

Proof? Not sure if serious, but "I won't flop the stone cold nuts every time" isn't a valid argument to prove it's not profitable.

If there are 4 limpers, we are getting 11 to 1 with a hand that plays very well multi-way. 78s suited will flop equity quite often. Like I said, if you're not brain dead and stack off with top pair, chase draws where you're not getting the correct pot/implied odds, (insert other spew), etc then go ahead and fold.

Completing 78s >>>folding ainec

Yeah jeez, why would we ever call with anything, pocket 6's, JTs, I mean since flopping the nuts is so unlikely we should never play them.

78s will often flop equity you're right, but it will often be equity that you're chasing OOP for far more than you originally intended. You fellas are putting waaaay too much stock in your preflop odds.

chasing? you're assuming were making -ev decisions postflop.

Making a blanket statment like "completing 78s in the sb is hands down unprofitable" is just dumb.

Im not going to argue with you, but if you're folding 78s then what is your completing range in the sb? Or do you just fold everything?

This is a purely pot odds question. We are risking $1 to win $18 on the flop. You should be calling with 72o in this situation. We cant predict what will happen postflop, so thinking that we will be "chasing for more than we intended" is irrelevant.

72o is a stretch. Being oop is obviously a disadvantage. My typical completing range includes all hands that play well multiway like low pp's, most suited connectors, suited Ax, Kx, and Qx.