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Speech play quiz

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12-02-2021 , 01:45 PM

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Playing 2/5 and 1500 effective and got hit with speech play which I'm pretty sure villain correctly interpreted - posting to see just how obvious the tell is with a view to using villains line myself.

10 10 k 6 5

Pot was bloated and I had bet turn pretty big.

Villain is a clearly very experienced and very good player, best I played with on the trip.

He checks the river and I bet big again, he quickly asks 'do you ever bluff?
I blurted 'yeah of course I sometimes bluff'

Was I bluffing?

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12-02-2021 , 01:46 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,337

yeah

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12-02-2021 , 02:52 PM

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,132

Sounds like you want to make it seem like you're comfortable by saying you could be bluffing implying you have a strong hand which means you likely don't.

Also the fact that you bet turn really big which doesn't seem like it should be a thing unless you're clicking buttons.

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12-02-2021 , 04:53 PM

ChaosInEquilibrium

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,341

You were not bluffing. If you were bluffing you would have felt uncomfortable by his question and you would have at least paused before answering rather than suddenly blurting out a response, or you would have not answer his question at all (which is the balanced reaction to speech play).

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12-02-2021 , 05:04 PM

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,132

Actually I like your answer better. Also I think the default is to just stay silent when you're bluffing.

I only like my answer if he is intentionally responding as opposed to a knee jerk response.

But yeah betting big on the turn still seems weird.

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12-02-2021 , 05:29 PM

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic

Yeah to clarify it wasn't a consciously considered response, just an immediate reaction

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12-02-2021 , 05:33 PM

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,132

Ok in that case I agree w/ Chaos as it's typically difficult and not really natural to want to blurt out anything when you are bluffing.

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12-02-2021 , 05:35 PM

hyperknit

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Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

I think u have value

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12-02-2021 , 09:16 PM

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Did you blink before, after, or during the question? How many breaths did you take in the 30 second period surrounding the question being asked? What was your heart rate? Was the villain seated close enough that he could potentially get some smell tells?

And most importantly, why the hell did you answer a question from the best player that you played with on the entire trip after making a big bet on the river in a huge pot?

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12-02-2021 , 09:36 PM

#10

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

Blurt = You have it.

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12-02-2021 , 10:09 PM

#11

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

We call it Voight kampff for short

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And most importantly, why the hell did you answer a question from the best player that you played with on the entire trip after making a big bet on the river in a huge pot?

I was more chapped at myself for opening my mouth there than for any of the many technical errors I make

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12-02-2021 , 11:22 PM

#12

Nh,gg.

journeyman

Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

We call it Voight kampff for short

I was more chapped at myself for opening my mouth there than for any of the many technical errors I make

Not even close to baseline.... At least he wasn't asking you about why you weren't helping the tortoise.

Were you betting heavy PF and flop too?

I've no idea how well you act, but I agree with hyperknit, Hitchens, and CIE that, if you were bluffing, you'd have thought about the answer. Either through confusion/surprise at being discovered, or simply trying to think of a story. The sudden blurt---as you describe it---means you aren't thinking of telling a credible bluff, and you therefore have some value. Maybe a T, maybe more.

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12-03-2021 , 12:56 AM

#13

OvertlySexual

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

No and keep your mouth shut.

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12-03-2021 , 10:39 AM

#14

Steve00007

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Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 9,163

I would think it shows strength when you blurted that out. First because bluffers tend to be quiet as others have said, but also because bluffers tend to be less likely to say anything that might annoy a player (and as a result possibly make an opponent more curious).

Did villain watch you play before and watch you consistently bet for value and show down good hands? I don’t know if he did, but if that happened, I could see you getting annoyed and thinking you weren’t going to get paid off, so you blurted out that you do sometimes bluff. But even if this never happened I think you speaking out still shows strength.

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12-03-2021 , 03:13 PM

#15

St Bernadino

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,669

My standard action after betting is to go dead and pick a spot on the table in front of me to stare at, whether I'm value betting or bluffing.

That said, an immediate verbal response from anyone that isn't a chatter box tool like Jamie Gold, usually indicates comfort with their bet. If you are actually playing against Jamie Gold, buy yourself some ear buds, shut up, and let him spew money.

I would generally never make this choice purely on a verbal response, but from what little you gave us, you sound like you're not bluffing.

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12-03-2021 , 05:56 PM

#16

johnny_on_the_spot

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

OP, the problem you’re going to run into in attempting to use Vs line on others is that you really would want to have a typical baseline idea of how any potential V is going to react. Just because the population read is that quick response = not bluffing doesn’t mean it applies to every V regardless of what you had in this situation.

Having all the action actually matters also.

Depending on the pre/flop action, if you have it, I would guess you had KK, KT, T6 or 66 if you aren’t bluffing. If you were bluffing, flopped/turned combo draws

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12-03-2021 , 07:38 PM

#17

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

RESULTS

Villain kinda shrug folded. I had 66 for the boat and I'm pretty damn sure it was the speech which made him fold - total fish speech fml

Lesson (re)learned. Well played villain IMO

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12-03-2021 , 11:32 PM

#18

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,337

That was good to say if you were bluffing but it's not something you should say when you want him to call, next time don't do or say anything. Who knows maybe he was folding either way.

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12-04-2021 , 02:52 AM

#19

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

RESULTS

Villain kinda shrug folded. I had 66 for the boat and I'm pretty damn sure it was the speech which made him fold - total fish speech fml

Lesson (re)learned. Well played villain IMO

Yessss knew it

If ur interested in getting into speech play u should check Verbal poker tells by Zachary Elwood

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12-05-2021 , 09:29 PM

#20

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,646

Next time respond by shaking your head side to side , sigh and say” I guess I’m going home early. “

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12-05-2021 , 09:41 PM

#21

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

Next time respond by shaking your head side to side , sigh and say” I guess I’m going home early. “

Not sure if serious, but this would be much much worse. Might work as a hail mary attempt if you're bluffing though.

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12-05-2021 , 10:11 PM

#22

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic

Not sure if serious, but this would be much much worse. Might work as a hail mary attempt if you're bluffing though.

You have to consider not just what you’re thinking but what your opponent is thinking as well. OP said he was the toughest player at the table so when he hears I guess I’m going home now he will think about it critically and realize the reason you think you’re going home now is because you’re bluffing and when he calls you you’ll lose all your money and rather than rebuy you’ll leave the poker room in disgust. But you’re not bluffing, you have a full house.I think if you said that you’d level him into a call.

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12-06-2021 , 12:00 AM

#23

411Heelhook

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 561

Answer him "Of course not, bluffing is for liars and mama raised an honest boy." Then mutter under your breath "Haha you fool! little do you know I have you right where I want you." While poorly trying to conceal a smile.

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12-06-2021 , 12:27 AM

#24

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by 411Heelhook

Oooooo

How devilishly deceptive. I’m glad you don’t play in my game.

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