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Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs

01-26-2011 , 11:07 AM
1/2NL Table is playing fairly loose while V1 has been on the extreme end playing over 50% of hands pf and being fairly aggressive with them.

UTG: V1 (~$125)
UTG+1: Hero ($225)
CO: ($300)
BTN: ($250)

Hero Dealt 56
V1 PFRs to $12 (His standard), Hero, CO, and BTN call.

4 Players (Pot $48). Flop: 24Q
V1 bets 20. Hero calls (?) CO folds. BTN folds.

Head Up. (Pot $88). Turn: Q
V1 Bets $45 leaving about $50 behind. Hero?

I'll leave out my line of thinking in exchange for yours. Additionally, if anyone could comment on playing suited connectors with just over 100bbs, I'd appreciate those thoughts as well.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 11:22 AM
I'd fold 65s to this villain. You aren't playing 100BB, you're playing about 60BB (his stack). The fact you have more doesn't mean anything for this hand.

Flop is an easy fold. You're 4:1 to hit your back door flush on the turn. The maximum you can win is $183 and it will cost you $45. Given that there is a chance he won't toss the last of his money in and you aren't drawing to the nuts, this is again an easy fold.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 11:26 AM
I like suited connectors but not this low. If you make your flush and are met with any resistance, you will almost never be good.
You may have 100bbs but your opponent does not. So you are only playing for his stack. These conditions make this a clear fold preflop.
Flop is a fold. You have a gutshot and a backdoor club draw that might not even be good if you hit it
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 01:06 PM
Low, suited connectors are hugely speculative (as shown by your hand), so you want to play them cheap imo. And in position.

These hands just don't hit that often, so you need big implied odds, which is why you want a big multi-way pot when playing them.

At BTN or CO, given 3-4 callers, I can (sort of) appreciate peeling one off preflop. Out of position to the rest of the table, however, is poor. Especially with Villain leading out 6bb from UTG. You know he's going to c-bet most flops.

On the flop, you've got a bloated pot and a LAG betting into you, holding a gutshot straight draw and a backdoor flush. You don't need PokerStove to tell you your equity here is marginal at best. Time to shut it down.

Since you got to the turn, straight pot odds shows your getting 45:133, approx 1:3, while the cards (9 spades + 3 3's = 12outs x 2 + 2) is approx 1:3 as well. Given the facts that you may not get called for that last 50 if the turn brings a spade, or he may very well have a higher spade flush...
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 01:26 PM
Really easy fold preflop. We can't put in 10% of the effective stack preflop with speculative hands cuz they simply ain't gonna pay off enough of the time to get return on that high of an investment (look for something like <= 5% here). Plus, we're still in fairly EP; way too many behind us can wake up with a hand plus we'll be playing in a horrible position right behind the raiser in a multi-way pot (hard position to know if we should chase draws, plus hard position to get paid off); we'd more like to be in LP after multiple callers.

Flop is a super easy fold. We need 10:1 to chase our 4outer gutshot, we're only getting 3:1, so we have to make up ~7 bets * $20 = $140 just to breakeven (which isn't even possible with the stack sizes). Plus we still have others to act behind us who could raise.

Turn (which we shouldn't have gotten too) is just a math question. We have likely 12 outs to the best hand, so about a 25% chance of making it so we need implied odds of 3:1 here. We're already getting immediate odds of 3:1 plus we'll get villain's last bet of $50 on the river (he most likely ain't folding now). So easy call, methinks.

BTW, if you don't understand why you should / should not be calling the turn bet then you might want to read up some material on pot odds / implied odds / counting your outs / etc. cuz this is a pretty straightforward situation you'll probably be facing a lot.

GgoodluckatthetablesG
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 01:41 PM
Appreciate the input. I agree w/ you GG that the turn was a mathematical call, which is why I flatted, whiffed on the river and folded to Villain's last $50. I think my real error here was going into the hand without a good idea of how many chips villain actually had (he had been throwing them around quite a bit and he kept his arms extended past the rails partially blocking my view) and as Venice noted, I wasn't playing this hand with 100bbs, I was playing with Villian's effective 60bbs.

I suppose I was hoping to get a call behind from either CO, BTN or both to substantiate my horrid flop call. I think the main takeaway from this for me is that I need to be more cognizant of villains' stack sizes and that this type of hand should be played much closer to, if not on, the button.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 01:51 PM
Anytime someone does the old 'hide their chip stack with their arms' trick just tell them to move their hands. Note postflop you are OOP against two players - not where you want to be with a drawing hand. You are also faced cold with an oversized raise. Yes, larger raises are more common live BUT this still kills implied odds even if everyone is doing it.

Personally I'm not a big fan of suited connectors vs non droolers.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 02:53 PM
PRE IS spew from every angle. Position and stacks just make it a no.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 03:14 PM
If he's playing 50% of hands you're going to get another chance to take his money in about 37 seconds. Why mix it up with 6-high?
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF
If he's playing 50% of hands you're going to get another chance to take his money in about 37 seconds. Why mix it up with 6-high?
That's a pretty good point.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 03:29 PM
playing suited connectors for 3x raises pre is fine with 100bbs, playing them for 6x raises is most likely spew since you won´t have odds to chase or have much stack to manuever post flop. Likewise with pots that go 5 way pre-flop for the 6x raises you are playing fit or fold for the most part.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 03:52 PM
Lately, I have been leaning towards 89s as the lowest I go with connectors.
Any merit to this?
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 04:04 PM
One more point on the pre flop call, which is similar to everyone else's point of being out of position, but since this villian is raising a lot of hands, I think it is more likely that someone behind will three bet lighter than normal and you can't call a reraise here.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iworktoomuch
One more point on the pre flop call, which is similar to everyone else's point of being out of position, but since this villian is raising a lot of hands, I think it is more likely that someone behind will three bet lighter than normal and you can't call a reraise here.
Yeah/my thoughts also.
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote
01-26-2011 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCash
Lately, I have been leaning towards 89s as the lowest I go with connectors.
Any merit to this?
I don't think so. A hand like 76 is more likely either treasure or trash, but hands on the low end of the Broadway spectrum (9T or TJ) can get you in a lot of trouble, as villains are much more likely to play random broadways, so you may find yourself dominated.

I'm more for middle sc's (cheaply, and in position, of course)
Soooted Connectors w/ close to 100bbs Quote

      
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