Villain 2 and me both have ~700 in front, Vill 1 has about 160.

Pot is straddled to make the game 1/2/10.

Villain 1 is a mega spew tard, definition loose passive. Villain 2 makes all kinds of crazy plays, VPIP is at least 50%, in unstraddled hands, he will routinely get 2k+ deep, rebuying for 500 at a time, stacking off quite light, bluffs a lot.

Vill 1 and 2 call in EP, safe to say these guys have no concept of position, I make it 50 with AxJd. Both call.

We take a flop of 5d5x2d. Pot 150

I barrel 85, Vill 1 shoves, Vill 2 calls, I call.

Turn Ad - Pot ~500

Vill 2 checks, I ask how much he's playing, then check back.

River Kd, Vill 2 open shoves for ~500.

HERO???

Vill 1 has a range of most likely low pps, random overs, like anything, So we are not worried about him at all just Vill 2.

villain 2's VPIP is 50% which can easily be a 5 and flush draws and he just cold called OTF. River is a super easy fold

I have the second nut flush on the river. But yeah folding seems like the play to me as well, in retrospect.

Oh wow im a donk I didnt see the Ad OTT. Disregard what I said above.

I guess I could find a fold OTR since were so deep unless we have a specific read that he is capable bluff shoving all-in. The fact that villain 1 is still in hand and youre essentially in a side pot is important also imo. 22 is also a possibility given cold call OTF.

I mean yeah, I didn't put sick spot in the thread title for no reason lol

so you open 25bb preflop and it has a buy in of 500 for 1/2nl? is this 2/5 u mean?

Sorry, I will change it in initial post, straddled to 1/2/10. This fact should decrease Vill 2s VPIP to like 30% maybe

Your read on villain 2 does not make sense because:

I have seen fish on heaters playing this deep or close to it before. I have not seen the same fish routinely playing with $2000 in front of them at 1/2. In all the time I've been playing I have never sat with a $2000 stack even once.

Do you have any specific hands to support your read that V2 doesn't know what he's doing? Otherwise, if I saw the same guy with a $2000 stack more than twice I would label him a great player until proven otherwise and tread extremely carefully.

EDIT: Also, your flop call is just awful. To me this sounds like you are the fish, not V2.

I mean he will have 2k in the game, like he will be stuck thousands. I have seen him stack off with tpnk, mid pair gutshot, naked straight draws, naked flush draws. He is super gamble gamble and a huge loser, he single handedly has invigorated the game to a whole new level. He has bottomless pockets and it seems to be his plan each night to lose thousands and eventually mount a comeback and leave down like 1-2k.

PS, he overshoves for 30 more, getting infinity to one on the call, also especially considering vill 1, have a lot of history with him, ace high could easily be good.

So you don't mean 2k deep, you mean into the game for 2k. OK, that makes a little more sense now.

Your flop call is still awful. The pot odds are meaningless in this spot. Your $30 call does not take you to showdown.

Fair enough, but what I'm really looking for is what to do as played on the river.

On second thought, why is the flop call so bad, Vill 2 could have any number of drawing hands.

basically this. i play 1-2 alot and routinely play deep $700-$1400, but its rare to build a stack over 2k, I can count on one hand how many times I've done it or seen other players do that in the past 6 months and I play alot. So if villian regularly has a 1k+ BB stack I'm staying away fo sho!

As to hand
flop call is super shaky, not betting turn is criminal, all this leads to river spot that is as desrcribed, sick.

If this guy is as bluffy spewy as you say this should be an easy call.

However taking a more realistic approach, No money went in after v1 pushes, so he's open shoving ~$500 into a dry side pot w/ a 4flush and paired board.

This to me is really never a bluff, nutflush at worst I'd expect to see a boat here most of the time.

The time to put money in was the turn w/ tp and fd, now its a fold.

OK now I see he's usually stuck 2k, I read it wrong, I still think you have to bomb the turn if you call flop.
In the games I play in a river bet like this is almost always the goods, but if this player is really as bad as you say, I guess you can justify a call. I mean if your saying Ace high is good in similiar spots against him I guess a call's mandatory really.
My expierence says fold but from what your saying I can see why you probably called.....and lost.

I believe that I am using the word "deep" in a different way that you guys are, by "deep" I mean how much money a person buys in for total in a night. So by 2k deep I mean that he will buy 200, lose, buy 500, lose, 500 more, lose, until he has like 2k invested.

But thanks for the input, the fold seems like the best line. I check back turn because I thought he would bluff a lot of rivers, but didn't consider the ai player making it impossible for him to bluff with missed draws.

Youve seen him stack off light before but a lot of those hands seem like draws, ie he didnt stack off on the river. Have you ever seen him make any large river bet in the past and if so, what did he have?

The last time we played I flopped a flush in a limped pot from the sb. We take the flop 4 ways. I triple barrel with the board pairing on the turn. He makes a large river raise, I snap and he has a boat.

The more I think about it, his bluffs are never ai. I have seen him begin a bluff on the turn and follow through on the river, but never for stacks. Especially in this situation, given the ai player, I think he must have a boat every time.

You posted the wrong hand. This isn't the sick spot. This is the one where villain open-shoved into a dry side pot on a paired four-flush board.

I'm pretty sure that this hand has been discussed enough, no one seems to have much else constructive criticism. OP has learned something, EZ fold, EZ game etc, we all go home happy. Thanks for all the input.

results? Did you fold? I'm curious but I think he's got a boat.

I think I like the raise preflop against these guys. We probably have the best hand against their garbage and we're in position, I'm guessing there's even a decent chance we take down the pot preflop.

I think I don't mind the flop barrel. Paired low board, only one draw. Even though it's three way, I think if I'm cbetting a flop 3way this is probably the board to do it on. Heck, against these guys A high is probably the best hand, it's probably a value bet.

If I've counted right, after the all-in and call we're being asked to call an extra $25 to win $455, so we're getting over 18:1, pretty crazy odds you rarely get to see in NL. I don't think I could pass this up either.

Kinda sucky spot on turn since I believe we only have a PSB left. The only draw just came in, plus we coulda possibly been crushed already on the flop. We've only got a one pair type hand here, plus we've got a backup draw to the flush draw. Even though pot is huge, I think I'm kinda hoping to check it down here rather than risking another 250 BB. So I also check the turn, and hoping crazy villain will make a reasonable bluff at things on the river which I can pay off.

Even though river bet is only a PSB, it's still 250 BB. The pot is also protected with the other dude being in here, so the chances of V2 bluffing is pretty slim. Is he really over-valuing a lower diamond or a naked 5? I woulda paid off a small bet, but this is too much methinks.

If you folded the river, I think I play the hand the same way.

GbutI'macluelessNLnoob,sowhateverG

Someone asked for spoilers so here we go,

I call, he shows 22 for the flopped boat.

Unfortunately, against this particular villain, who my experience with has grown a ton over the last few days, watching my buddy take thousands from him, etc. I now realize that he could bluff the river, but not for a shove of that size, especially given the player AI.

I think one poster has mentiones that this is a PROTECTED pot. There is no money in the side pot. Villian will gain NOTHING from bluffing. Therefore, he is NEVER bluffing

/thread

"tilt equity"