1/2nl 7-handed
I just sat down and BB can't possibly have categorized me as a type of player
About 180 deep with BB
UTG limps, CO limps
I raise to 15 on the button with AKo
SB calls (super loose player)
BB, UTG, CO calls

Flop (60)-KJJ rainbow
Checks to me, I bet 25
SB folds, BB raises to 65
Folds to me, I call

Turn (190)-8
BB checks
I check

River(190)-9 (no flushes)

Should I bet on the turn or river here? I feel that with 4 callers, a jack is well within anyone's range. But checking through is too nitty? Perhaps I should have folded on the flop because BB range has many J's in this spot?

Turn check/check is fine, on the river after he checks one more time I highly doubt he has Jx or better, was probably just bluffing with the c/r on the flop, or seeing where he's at with a hand like TT. I'd bet the river small, like 50-60$. Get value from some 1pair he backed into or has.

Yeah I bet river too. Jx should bet turn. Flop bet may well be Kx trying to find out where it's at, in which case you get value with river bet.

Your flop bet was so small he probably figured you were just betting to see where you were at. Once you didn't fold on the flop, he shut down. You want a call, so I'd go about $80. Hard for low stakes players to fold TP getting 3:1.

As played, I'd X back the river. Blocking KX hands, QT gets there and JX hands might now go into a X/C mode OTR. Seems like a very thin calling range.

Flop - I might fold given the BB X/R with 2 players in between. Once you call, fine as played, imho.

I would raise more pre. Make it $19-20 over two limps. $15 isn't terrible if the typical raise is $10-12.

Pot is $190 and effective stacks are $100, given $180 stack sizes at the start. So it's either an AI or check. It's really close. If V has a J, he would shove the turn. If he made his hand with QT on the river, why would he check and risk the hand getting checked down?

Given this info, I would go with the all in, just over half pot. You probably won't get a call, but you might with KQ or KT. V would expect you to shove the turn with a jack, but he definitely could put you on QT. I can't see V calling a smaller bet of say $50 but folding to another $50 more. If he's going to call, make him call for it all.

Grunch.

1/2 has ridiculous raise sizes. I would've gone $20 readless with the given pre action. It's hard to say what's right, but my go to in these games is ~$15 + BB/limper, but I'm usually ending my raise size in 5 or 0.

As far as the flop goes - I've personally started to go 1/3 pot with my entire range on every board. People are just way too wide and won't be able to properly defend against it, and we just print. So I guess the only thing differently on the flop I do is $20 instead of $25, but that's being nit picky. I call the raise as well.

The turn is super standard. EDIT: for whatever reason I thought villain was OTB. I would actually bet this turn. I don't expect villain to check the turn with a J, and it's extremely unlikely that he'd fold a K.

River is a definite value bet; I go $130 and snap fold to a raise. I would go a little larger deeper, but we start to get in really weird pot odds spots if we're going larger and get shoved on.

Post grunch thoughts...

Solvers are HU and I'm also no where even remotely close to having advanced proficiency with poker theory, BUT I know theory will tell you to go smaller in multiway pots. From an exploitative point of view I like the sizing too (though I'd go slightly smaller.) We'll also have no problem going three streets and playing for stacks if flop goes x-c, turn goes x-c, shove river...I wouldn't worry at all about your flop sizing.

People want to go way too small on the river. The only hand I can see him calling for $50-$80 that he's not calling for $130 is maybe TT. This is definitely something I've cleaned up in my game, and have seen good results; bigger is almost always better on the river in LLSNL.

Samo - you're one of my favorite posters; I'm surprised you're saying to check back the river. I disagree about Jx, but I think QT is definitely a possibility. I would say villain's calling range otr is 8 combos of KQ, 8 combos of KT, and 16 combos of QT. With that being said, I would discount QT because I don't expect it to get x-r otf very often, and I also think the population is spazing otf and calling TT otr at some frequency.

I check back the river (I feel is way too nitty) and he shows K7o at showdown. I'm surprised he would call with a junky offsuit king preflop. I feel I should have definitely made him pay for playing such a hand and it seems most here agree.

Yeah, I'm never checking back here. Bart Hanson from Crush Live Poker says it best "if you're never value owning yourself, you're not value betting frequently enough." Thin value betting is pivotal to a high win rate.

This should be a bet/fold spot.

How the hell can we b/f any amount 100 deep with 190 in the middle?

Sixsevenoff wants to b/f all in?

After he ck river just bet something a king can call and never fold.

Thx 67o. I more often than not do bet this spot, but this one stumped me. You were right on, wp.

I totally misread OP. I thought we were 180 BB deep ->$360

Yeah, just shove river

I feel pretty good about our hand by river and think this guy will show up with a lot of weaker Kx here


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All I needed to see to answer this question is the title of thread: yes. The answer is yes like 95% of the time. If they seem weak, and I’m not sure what I can get called by, I just bet smallish anyway and I get called by worse. This logic definitely applies here. He has a worse K a huge percentage of the time and will often call.

When in doubt, value bet.

I think the flop decision is the toughest part of this hand actually. Gotta look at the guy and figure if he’s the type of person to click it back with Kx or possibly something like TT because this won’t be a pure bluff very often.

I think flop is a pure call. Some people have a mediocre king and are raising to “see where they are at”. Sometimes they flopped the goods and are trying to “keep you in”. Sometimes they just suck and can’t properly size bets. But really, doing anything but calling the flop minraise is bad IMO


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Yea my default against a random is to call flop here. I don’t think the call is printing though.