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Should I move to 2/5? Should I move to 2/5?

04-05-2012 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal ExtacY
you make 1500$ a week playing 1-2$, pretty sick game selection imo.
yeah man that win rate is BS. Its an estimate and not reality. Probably more like 25
04-05-2012 , 02:00 PM
I've said it before, my winrate is reality, and admit it is an approximation. I have the bankroll in cash to back it up. Is it an estimate? Of course. At the end of each weekend we count my $ I come out with and how many approximate hours I played. We keep track of this by weekend, so will the numbers be precise to the exact minute and dollar? No, but they will be very close.

I find it sort of disturbing that people seem so obsessed about my win rate. I keep as good of records as anyone or more so. I don't know any recreational player who keeps track down to the very last minute and very last dollar. My method of tracking my hours by weekend and by dollars I come out with is a simple, effective, approximation. I add my weekends up to get my total by month, then my months up to get by year. Of course it's an approximation, but when I am playing primarily recreationally and have 20+ g's at the end of the year in cash in my bankroll when I know I started with a few hundred, I'm not obsessed with an accurate calculation down to the very last dollar. My win rate is what it is, don't call my entire thread a level just because you are incredulous.
04-05-2012 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timjcarroll81
yeah man that win rate is BS. Its an estimate and not reality. Probably more like 25
I've crushed 1/2nl and 1/3nl for $30 - $40/hr provided that:

#1 peak Times when EVERYONE is 100bb - 200bb deep
#2 there are a couple of 400bb+ stacks at the table.

OP states he's a rec player that only plays 3 Times per week. If he is playing during peak Times only (ie Thursday - Saturday nights) then his claim is believeable.

I've had nights where I'm playing 1/3nl waiting for 2/5nl and the 1/3nl table is so juicy that I've opted to just stay at the table and make an easy $500 - $1k in a session.
04-05-2012 , 05:32 PM
I have never lost a session if I only count winning sessions.
04-05-2012 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I've said it before, my winrate is reality, and admit it is an approximation. I have the bankroll in cash to back it up. Is it an estimate? Of course. At the end of each weekend we count my $ I come out with and how many approximate hours I played. We keep track of this by weekend, so will the numbers be precise to the exact minute and dollar? No, but they will be very close.

I find it sort of disturbing that people seem so obsessed about my win rate. I keep as good of records as anyone or more so. I don't know any recreational player who keeps track down to the very last minute and very last dollar. My method of tracking my hours by weekend and by dollars I come out with is a simple, effective, approximation. I add my weekends up to get my total by month, then my months up to get by year. Of course it's an approximation, but when I am playing primarily recreationally and have 20+ g's at the end of the year in cash in my bankroll when I know I started with a few hundred, I'm not obsessed with an accurate calculation down to the very last dollar. My win rate is what it is, don't call my entire thread a level just because you are incredulous.
I think I'm getting leveled but the reason people are obsessed with your rate is because you may be the only person in the world to beat a 1-2nl game over 1200 hours at that win rate.
04-05-2012 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
I've crushed 1/2nl and 1/3nl for $30 - $40/hr provided that:

#1 peak Times when EVERYONE is 100bb - 200bb deep
#2 there are a couple of 400bb+ stacks at the table.

OP states he's a rec player that only plays 3 Times per week. If he is playing during peak Times only (ie Thursday - Saturday nights) then his claim is believeable.

I've had nights where I'm playing 1/3nl waiting for 2/5nl and the 1/3nl table is so juicy that I've opted to just stay at the table and make an easy $500 - $1k in a session.
Have you tracked an hourly rate? I suspect op is indeed crushing the game just not for the hourly he thinks.
04-05-2012 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
Wait...your girlfriend sits there and watches you play poker 12 hours at a time?
Right.

Level.
Agreed, has to be a level.
04-05-2012 , 06:46 PM
If you're crushing $1-2, and can afford the higher stakes, either because of your bankroll size or your personal income, move up!

What's the worst that can happen? You find yourself outclassed, identify some holes in your game, and have to work on them? You lose a few buy ins in the process? At $125K income, you can easily afford to take $2K to a $2-5 game, and see if you can score.

You will never, ever, ever reach the nosebleeds if you don't take shots.

I believe you will find that $2-5 is only a slightly different game than $1-2, and the differences are not all negative. There are more rich "whales", bluffs are a teensy bit more effective, and (my favorite) egos are a little bigger, which gives you more to exploit if you know how.

You can't value bet quite as thinly, on average. Yes, you'll face some better players. But if you're smart, you'll learn from them.

All the talk about winrate is just air. If you're winning, you aren't just bullshiatting yourself, and you have the money, move up. We rise to the level of our competition. If your fundamentals are strong, $2-5 is not any harder to beat than $1-2, and you'll become a better player with the experience.

Put on your big boy pants and go get 'em man. Poker ain't for sissies.
04-05-2012 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal ExtacY
its referring to playing 12% of your hands and raising 8%
thank you.

Mystery solved
04-05-2012 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswilson1
Agreed, has to be a level.
Yes, level.

Or download app to keep precise numbers. Man up and move up to 2/5!

Has to be level though.
04-05-2012 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
Actual hourly rate-$37
Hrs played-1350

I already see a disconnect between my interests and that of most two plus two ers. Just because I have a career that pays well, and I could theoretically afford to play 2/5 or even 5/10 (which isn't offered at my casino regardless) doesn't mean I should. I don't think it's a matter of playing at the highest stakes you can theoretically afford.

My career is decent paying, but also mostly boring, and stressful. I am also close to the low man at the totem pole in my organization, so that adds to my stress. Poker is a good avenue for stress relief because it so engrossing. The more stressed I have been at my job, the more poker I have played, to get my mind off things. It's also a place where I can be myself, and I am good at it if I work at it, so it is rewarding.

That said, I'm not going to just gamble away my money. If I am going to play lots of hours, I want to be the best that I can be at it, which involves lots of study. This has been good as well because studying poker is another good outlet.

My motivation for poker is not financial. It's something that I'm good at, which makes me feel good. Again my motivation isn't to win money, but to simply WIN. Winning feels good, regardless of the stake. My concern is that if I move to 2/5 I will win less often. I think a lot of 2 plus 2ers ignore the emotional reward of poker and focus solely on the profit margin, which is rational if you view it as a way to make money, but not everyone views it in those terms.

I'm competitive and I hate losing. If I'm going to do something, I want to win. To me, there's no point if you're losing.

I just don't want to move to 2/5 and lose. Again money has nothing to do with it.


But based on the comments here, I think what makes the most sense is to go to 2/5 a small portion of the time. Maybe one or two sessions a month, if I up significantly. That way I can "get my feet wet" without significant risk. And who knows, maybe I'll find 2/5 isn't that much more difficult than 1/2.

Thanks for the advice, DGI in particular.
if money has nothing to do with it and you just like winning, then play 1/2 for the rest of your life even after you hit the lottery. you dont just want to gamble your money away. 99% of ppl who move up, move up to make more money. you have a good job that you stress over and hate, you seem to play poker for fun, confidence, and empowerment of beating other ppl and being a winner and being a competitive human being. nothing wrong with that. but with that being said, everyone on here is thinking about making more money and becoming a better player, by playing with more thinking players. i just dont think this post can be answered by anybody but you since it doesnt matter about the money and everyone is just saying if you crush 1/2 then move up.

also i find it hard for you to work a fulltime job then play 1350 hrs a year. **** just dont add up man. working 40 hrs a week 50 weeks a year (2 wk vacation) is 2000 hrs. so you play 27 hrs a week for 50 weeks out of the year. thats a lot of table time for someone with a fulltime job, you need more hobbies IMO.
04-05-2012 , 10:00 PM
Yeah I don't do anything other than work and play poker really. I work the typical 9-5. When I get off work, I do a quick work out, and then study poker in some form or another until I go to bed. Whether that's reading strategy books or watching WPT tape. My gf studies with me too. We go to poker on the weekends and play from Friday night to Sunday with little rest. She plays 2-4 limit but when she gets bored she watches me. When she watches me, she tracks my stats. She also tracks my stats on her phone after each session. You would have to understand our relationship because we work for the same organization, go to poker together, work out together, etc. In the past two years we have not been apart for more than 1-2 hrs at a time, so it's not extraordinary to me that she does the poker thing too. If she didn't do it, I wouldn't do it either.

I've been playing 1-2 25-30 hrs a week pretty consistently for about a year now. Also, even though I work in D.C. I am from Las Vegas originally and spend most of my vacation time visting family there/playing some, mostly in MGM. So if you add the 2-3 weeks a year I spend in Vegas, yes the hours played throughout the year are accurate. I don't even find 1000+ hrs to be excessive really as there are a lot of regulars who play every weekend for 20+ hrs and that adds up to over 1000 per year.

I never really considered playing higher stakes, mostly because I've been doing it for fun, but now that I'm taking it more seriously, I think I could at least try it.
04-05-2012 , 10:17 PM
In case anyone missed what OP said, or felt it was too long to read, I pretty much summarized it here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I have maintained a mean profit in my 1-2 sessions of over $500 per 12 hr session for over a year now, and I play 3 long 12 hr sessions a week, so I generally leave with $1500 in the positive for the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I still experience a lot of variance, I often pull over 1K a session, but I also have losing sessions approximately one time in five as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
My bankroll can sustain it and I have a 125K per year job, so even if I lose 1K every weekend for a while, I won't go broke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
No, I haven't taken any shots at 2/5. Ironically, I have actually played in high buy-in tournaments (at least the highest buy-in in my area) and won. Idk why I'm nervous to move to 2/5. It's just because I hate losing, I hate losing more than I like winning, and I'm sure any poker player can relate. So I've been sticking to a game I KNOW I'm going to win most of the time. It's not about the $$$$, I just don't want to lose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I do keep track of it, or at least my gf does. She keeps track of my winrate on an app on her phone. She also records my hands and what the result was. In case, it wasn't clear she sits and watches me play, and keeps track of all that stuff. didn't know I had to be that specific though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
There are usually 1-2 decent players at my 1-2 tables. These guys usually play 2-5, but sometimes there's not even a 2-5 table so they will move down to 1-2. Based on my experience playing with them at 1-2, they're decent but I haven't played against a single player who I honestly thought was better than me. So I can't say the 2-5 tables would be "tough", just tougher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I already see a disconnect between my interests and that of most two plus two ers. Just because I have a career that pays well, and I could theoretically afford to play 2/5 or even 5/10 (which isn't offered at my casino regardless) doesn't mean I should.
Question or thinly veiled brag? You decide.

---------------------------------------------

Finally to answer OP's original question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
Should I move up? Thoughts?
I think you may have answered your own question. Here are your reasons why you play:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
My motivation for poker is not financial. It's something that I'm good at, which makes me feel good. Again my motivation isn't to win money, but to simply WIN. Winning feels good, regardless of the stake. My concern is that if I move to 2/5 I will win less often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaDior
I'm competitive and I hate losing. If I'm going to do something, I want to win. To me, there's no point if you're losing.

I just don't want to move to 2/5 and lose. Again money has nothing to do with it.
So why are you thinking about moving up if it's obvious that everyone think you're the best 1/2 player to ever play in whichever poker room that you played, and the only thing important to you is "winning."
04-05-2012 , 10:22 PM
Yeah, I don't really feel there was any reason to be an ass

I think I'm going to stick to theoretical questions from now on.

No real reason to post about my personal life, my desires, or questions pertinent to my situation if everyone is just going to **** on my posts.

Thanks to those who responded genuinely, but there are so too many dicks on this forum for me to think it's worth it.
04-05-2012 , 10:33 PM
Dick how? I was simply quoting everything you said, and I don't believe I took any of the quotes out of context.

Honestly I don't see why you even posted the question.

You said money isn't important, only winning is. So if you know you win at 1/2, why do you need to move up?
04-05-2012 , 10:38 PM
I mean I get it.

You have a girlfriend, you make 120k, and you crush poker.

You are literally living the trifecta in LLSNL world.
04-05-2012 , 10:48 PM
I don't know what to say. I was putting my situation in context, so hopefully someone in a similar situation could provide meaningful feedback. I didn't say anything to brag, as you seem to infer. If something is true about my life, then it's true about my life, and it provides context. Other posters haved asked about their situation and not received this sort of harsh attack. I didn't include personal details about my life so that people could: 1) doubt the existence of those details or 2) make antagonistic posts that had nothing to do with the question at hand. Why go through my post just to be make snarky comments? I don't go through your posts just to be snarky. I may disagree with some people's lines, or how they play their hands, or theory, but I would never go through someone's personal post just to insult their personal life. Whats the point? I still think there's value to this forum, because it could help me with my hands. But I'm not going to post personal things if 90% of the responses are either disbelief or trolls just being a dick about things. Whether I move up or not, I now see that it's up to me, no one's really going to provide meaningful feedback.

Admin-please lock this thread. I'm not posting about it anymore and I'd prefer not to have my life **** on by strangers.
04-05-2012 , 10:50 PM
Took surprisingly long for someone to start trolling what was otherwise a perfectly good thread.
04-05-2012 , 10:51 PM
What meaningful feedback is there to provide?

I thought you made it very clear that money is not an issue...so what else is there to say?
04-05-2012 , 10:53 PM
A lot of people seem to have figured out the answer to that question.
04-06-2012 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HIJAY
If you're beating 1-2 for 41$ an hour, you should have the bankroll for it after a year. Why not just give it a try? If you're uncomfortable with it then step back down until your roll gets higher. No big deal. You're not getting married here.
You don't need anywhere near that big of a BR for 2/5 unless there's absolutely no way you can ever replenish it. I moved up to 2/5 with a <$5000 BR.
----
As I read this thread, I see a lot of red flags that (no offense OP) make me question your cred.

I can tell you my exact WR and standard deviation b/c I keep records. I think every winning player I know keeps records of their winning sessions.

"I win around $500/session but I don't know b/c my gf keeps track" suddenly becomes "37/hour over 1350 hours."
----
The reason people are flaming you is because this entire thread is basically a brag. You're saying "I crush 1/2, I'm the best player I've ever seen at this limit, and I'm far better than any 2/5 player I've seen at 2/5." Then you say you don't care about money. Then you brag about your life, but tell us not to talk about your life.

You're not interested in getting advice. You're not interested in honest feedback.

You want someone to say "Yes, OP should move up. He has the best life, the best GF, the best job, and the best game at 1/2 we've ever seen. He's officially conquered 1/2, and like Alexander he wept for there were no more games to conquer."

I hope that makes you feel better.

Last edited by PokerIsFrustrating; 04-06-2012 at 02:47 AM.
04-06-2012 , 02:40 AM
$37/hr for 1350 hours is way too huge for me to believe. 25-30 is absolutely destroying, and even that is hard to do over that large of a sample size. 19 BB/ hr, you should be playin nosebleed stakes.
04-06-2012 , 10:16 AM
As Venice says: "TTHRIC"
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