$1/2 game in Portland Oregon at Portland Meadows

Villian 1: Late 40's, plays somewhat snug but I've also seen him make some odd plays and a little bit of a calling station (starting stack for this hand $250)

Villian 2: young guy, wannabe pro (starting stack for this hand $400)

Hero: I feel like I'm a pretty good TAG player (starting stack for this hand $900)

.........
Preflop:
Villian 1 raises UTG to $12
Folds to me in MP and I look down at AcQd...I call the $12
Folds back around to Villian 2 in BB and he calls $12 as well

Flop: 9 7 5 Rainbow
Action checks all the way through

Turn: A (spade, which puts spade flush draw on board)
Action checks to me and I bet $20
Villian 2 folds
Villian 1 calls $20

River: Jd.....so the final board is 9 7 5 A J
Villian 1 checks to me
Hero should do what in this position??????????

There is no rake in this game so when the action checks to me on the river the pot is $77

What should I do when he checks to me on the river?????????

Bet 35 and fold to a raise.

Yeah, this seems like a standard b/f spot. Checking TP2ndK is losing too much value, and unless you have reads of spewiness V shouldn't be raising worse than AJ here.

I'd spend more time thinking about why you called with AQo to a snug player's UTG raise pf. What is a snug player's range here and how does AQo compare to it? It is the Queen of RIO hands.

If the answer is "it isn't good enough raise and too strong to fold," that's how all the other players at your table play. And they lose money.

Why not 3 bet preflop? I know its an under the gun open but it would allow you to take control of the hand, put pressure on 99 to JJ and if you get re raised by UTG preflop after your 3 bet you can easily fold. I think it allows you to play the hand easier and avoids spots like you have yourself in on the river.

help me please .
why isn't AQ a 3 bet unless you are up against tightzilla

Yeah preflop, we really shouldn’t be doing calling of an UTG raise from MP. 3 bet or fold.


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I would fold pre flop, most likely. If I don't fold, I would raise to $40.

I think I like a smaller size ott.

The river is a super clear value bet. I find it hard to believe villain has an A or much of a hand at all given the action, so I would go $25 to try and get a crying call from a low pair

The charts say 3bet or fold pre, but in some games against certain lineups I don't mind a flat.

I'm fine checking behind flop.

I'm fine with the turn bet and our sizing.

I bet $35 on the river and fold if raised. Sizing smaller since (like others mentioned above) it seems unlikely he has much.

Also, (pet peeve), even if AQ should be a 3bet pre, we can't tell that flatting is wrong just from the fact that all of the other players at our table play it that way.

All the other players at our table would 3bet AA here, and they all lose money. Therefore, we shouldn't 3bet AA here. (If you play like the rest of the table, you'll lose like the rest of table.)

All of the other players at our table would fold 72o here, and they all lose money. Therefore, we shouldn't fold 72o here. (If you play like the rest of the table, you'll lose like the rest of table.)

Again, I agree AQ should be 3bet here. But the fact that others at the table would flat here tells us nothing about whether it's good or bad to do so.

3 bet this hand all day. A snug player likely isn't 4 betting unless it's AA or KK, so if V 4-bets, you fold. A big win would be that V calls with an AK type hand, you both whiff the flop, and you C-bet him off the hand, repping a big pair.

As played, you have to value bet and fold to a raise. $35-40 seems reasonable, about half the pot.

One of my favorite lines from 1/2 and 1/3 is "every time you don't value bet the river, a little puppy dies".

Don't be a puppy killer...

Yeah this is a straight forward bet / fold spot for me. Hard to see villain having an A though so we're after a crying call. I go $30.

Yea I agree looking back on it I should've 3 bet it...I normally would with AQ off but was wary of the tight players UTG raise. All in all I agree I should've 3 bet

I ended up betting $30 for somewhat thin value on the river...he put in a check raise to $75....I then folded realizing I can only really beat A10 right?

I didn't see his hand but if I had to guess I say he had AJ???

Complete oversimplification of the situation. It’s all about how people make these “standard” plays, and then we incorporate them into our game and bleed the same money. Poker is reciprocity; how much of an edge you have is nothing more than the difference between your result and their result if the roles between you two are changed. The entire point of the argument is that if you play the same way, there’s no reciprocity in your favor. Even the worst players will make money with AA


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NH; WP.

Totally. I’m all about reciprocity. My point is just that “our opponents mostly do X” isn’t evidence in favor of X being bad. Because our opponents do lots of things that are also correct (like 3betting AA and folding 72o). That’s all I’m saying.

I get it, but it’s all generalization. Like if someone says “you should fold AA because the fish raise AA”, he will get mobbed. It’s about the mentality of falling into the same pitfalls that they fall into. One of the biggest ones is having an intermediate hand in a situation and electing to play it loose passively.


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Looks good, agree AJ is most likely. J9ss second most likely IMO.