I was curious how you guys react to a table that has a lot of short stackers. I would say on average about just over half the players at my tables sit with $50-$150 and the game is a standard weak passive 1/2 nl live game. How should our approach be adjusted for this crap? I have a rather tight style anyway and I would imagine that playing these short stackers should require a tighter selection of hands preflop. What else should I consider? Thnx for any help...

I avoid these type of tables.

this game is not profitable or beatable in the long term either move to a new table which i doubt will be any different so your best bet is to move up stakes if your serious about poker

Not beatable? Maybe not crushable but certainly beatable...I wish switching tables would fix it but this is standard at pretty much all the 1/2 tables where I play. Why do you say unbeatable over long run?

Wouldn't buying in full only increase my edge against these players?

There are often legitimate reasons to short stack.

If everyone is short and you are large you hold no advantage. Remember, it's not really NLHE, it's SLHE

Insofar as beatability is concerned it absolutely is. Just understand that it will play on an simpler level... which might not be the worst thing in the world, especially if we do not hold a giant skill advantage over everyone at the table. Even if we do, small stacks won't negate this

with the extremely high rake in 1/2 tables combined with the fact almost everyone only plays with 20-30bb at a time its just not beatable in the long term

not even phil ivey could beat it


your much better off at 2/5

If I was rolled clearly I would be there...but right now 1/2 is my only option. Should I start buying in for 150 or so?

Gonna have to disagree with this, it's just maybe more similar to a tournament with tables full of short stacks, and they will continue to play suboptimally. For example even with 20-30 bbs they will in general continue making unprofitable calls such as calling 5xbb raises with suited junk when they shouldn't be.

Always buy in for max (assuming 100 bbs) you want to be able to take maximum advantage of when one of these players has a big stack and makes a big mistake. Also, as far as playing with tables full of shorties behind you can make smaller raises and smaller isolation raises to keep the pot smaller and effective stacks bigger.

A lot of these players don't know proper re-shove ranges so usually your only getting re raised all in if they have a real hand.

That makes sense. Should I approach the game more like a tourney due to the shorties?

I was stuck on one of those tables for a while sometime ago, most people were between 25BB-50BB. here's the problem, when a guy has 40 dollars opens to 10, you can't play anything but top 5% of your range.(not enough implied odds for set mines or suited connectors) you can never make a play against those guys and you are forced to play the exact same way they play (really tight and shove with a big hand).

^ I would argue top 3% of range if hes LoosePassive

Most people buy in for $100(50bbs). How should I adjust to that? Should I still be 3betting hands like AK/AQ or should I just call and wait for a flop and risk seeing a flop 6-way!?

when a decent short stack with 50BB opens for 5-7 BB, fold all you KQ,KJ types of hands, be very very very careful with AQs,AJs, you can play some high suited connectors and set mine only when multiway with some other deep stacks.

not to derail but...

hypothetically if we sit with $200 at 1/2 and the mean effective stack is ~50bb arent we better off buying into 2/5 with ~50bb?

considering the fact that there is more money on the table, the games are generally looser (i.e. free of the SUPER NITTY ancient retirees ((still plenty of regular nits at 2/5)), and the rake is less of an issue; wouldnt short buying into a 2/5 game be considerably more +ev than full stacking a relatively chip poor 1/2 game?

furthermore the "deepness" of any given live 1/2 or 2/5 is debatable because of the large preflop raises.

snap fold AJ and even AQ if hes tighter

if people buy in for 30bb, it doesnt matter if you buy in for 48396589432095fdskjrfeinwo4998590254930treefiddy8r 59403845!&#302jio32 BB's. its still 30BB effective and you cant win anymore than the money they have in front of them.

i dont mind short stackers because most of them have this mentality.

"MAN, every time i have top pair and 100BB's i always put it all in and lose. How can I spend less money while still never folding top pair, or my 6 high flush draw that I want to see the river with. I know, buy in for the minimum and just stack off every time I have a hand like this!!!!!! GENIUS!!!!! Now I can only lose 60$ every time I have some sort of hand I can't fold"

listen to people speak at the table who are short stackers. every time the topic is brought up they say I can only lose $60 on a hand if I buy in short. its like they come in with the mentality that they are going to lose. i dont mind them at all, however I would avoid a table that is all short stackers, as your own game has to become a short stack strategy since 30BB is all that is effective regardless of your buy in

no because now you are short stacking a game, and a double up may put you out of your comfort zone playing a standard 100BB strategy. (500$) 100BB at 2-5 presents a much different scenario then 250BB at 1-2. to play a good short stack strategy you need a deep bankroll because it is variance stricken, so i would def disagree with your idea

50BBs really isn't that short, and for the 2-5 games in the casino I play, the min buy in is 500 (100BB). But there is something to be said about being able to buy in for 25BB doesn't matter the stakes. Do your homework on math and equities, you can easily double/triple up and run.

lol at above. seeing as i have a degree in mathematics ill disregard the comment about doing my mathematical homework, and suggest you learn about equities. your logic is terrible. saying you can double up and run because you are short stacked is just absurd. your equity doesnt increase with relation to your stack size. playing a proper short stack strategy has more variance in it then playing a TAG 100BB strategy.

agree and disagree, depends on what you mean by a proper short stack strategy and variance. if your strategy is purely equity based than the variance is huge but if your strategy is to play 1 hand per hour and only 3 bet shove your top3% range and force other people to be priced in to call then it's pretty good. problem is that you will likely to make 1-2BBs as your hourly rate over the long run, but hey..it's better than losing..and if the blinds are 1000/2000, I'm happily to take that 1500$ hourly rate any day anytime. lol

lol short stacking is the perfect way to drink the entire bottle of jack daniels by the capfull u are still drinking the entire bottle u lush

see if u buy in to the 2/5 game with 30 50 bbs 150 - 250 like most of the big losers week after week do in my local club games u end up getting hands like medium pairs or ak aq and u turn them into all in hands for value and even worse u give up huge equity when u cant call with sc or small pairs in big multi way pots with a raise but the bad players still do and then connect anything on the flop and they are all in always getting called by something worse and then rebuying for another 200 and repeating the process then they pick up aa and someone with a naked flush draw check jams on them cause of the smaller stack and they lose and wonder why they always get ****ed

buying in short is pure gamble... its fine if u want to buy in with 30 bbs in a game and gamble it up and try to run it up sure but as long as u know its gambling and u have basically 90 percent chance of busting it.

the worse thing to happen in my game is for the real bad short stackers to run hot and build a big stack early cause its cashoutville best to have them keep rebuying in short dumping and letting the other bad to average players build a nice stack that will swing and bust. its so sick how the guys that buy in short always end up getting stuck for 3 to 4 full buy ins anyway

Westnoob

a proper short stack strategy means shoving over limpers, shoving a wide range to pick up blinds etc etc. you saying you can double/triple up on a short stack is just silly because you can double/triple up on a full stack. playing the same style with a smaller stack doesnt change anything about your ability to make money

if you had the money to play 1k/2k then your 1500 per hour would be a joke and a waste of your time.

my whole point about that not being good to move to 2-5 with a short stack is that to play a short stack profitably means you will incur move variance, and higher variance with the same buy in may not be comfortable for some with a certain amount of money.



edit and by your strategy its also assuming that you are getting callers when you shove your top 3% to make that money. 97% of the time you fold so this means you will shove on average 1 hand an hour, and the likely hood of getting called and still having enough to make up for rake and blinds is pretty low

lol, I wasn't serious, but still let me defend myself here. you can always double/triple up, but given that you will much more likely to be in a multiway pot playing for stacks with 20BB than 500BB, so that your chances of tripling up are much higher.
And if you are playing in a 1-2 game with 40$, some guy opens to 12 and you just shove with your AA/KK, there are plenty plenty of people will still call the 28 more even if you show them the AAs face up. let's not kid ourselves here.

Lastly, maybe it's cuz I don't have the money to play 1k/2k, but 1500 an hour..damn..