I’m wondering on opinions of how I played this hand, and what you think of my river call. I called immediately, probably out of anger.
I’m normally a limit cash game player, but this was a $.5/$1 NL hold em’ game (8 handed). Also, please let me know if I’m not properly writing out the hand.

Preflop:
Hero (utg stack size $120) – QQ raises to $6
V1 (mp1 Stack size $180) – calls
V2 (button stack size $90) – calls
Everyone else folds

Flop (Q75 rainbow):
Hero – Bets $10
V1 – call
V2 – call

Turn (9H)
Hero – Bets $30
V1 – call
V2 –call

River (6C)
Hero – checks
V1 –Bets $63
V2 – folds
Hero –call

V1 shows A8 off

bet the flop bigger and A8o probably goes away. bet $20. even $15. we have a big hand, let's build a pot. although stacks are not listed, if you're playing a 100bb stack, then you are set up for a turn jam.

as played, i guess i fold and hate myself for butchering the hand. but this also depends on reads of villain, none of which are listed either.

Here is the correct way to post a hand: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...mplate-770217/

Don't post results.

Note: Stack sizes? Hard to give comments without knowing stack sizes. I'll assume everyone is full stacked.

PF: OK

F (19.50): (3) handed. SPR is 4.8. We have no reads on the players, so a standard half pot bet is OK, especially since the board is dry.

T (49.50): (3) handed. We've got $84 left and we want to get it all in on the river. We bet 60%P (30). Bet is OK, although I'd probably make it a bit bigger.

R (139.50): (3) handed. We've got $54 left and we've put in 46% of our stack. Never folding here. Vs could easily be doing this with two pair or a smaller set.

Game is $0.50/$1.00

Looks standard. Maybe a little bigger on turn to charge draws while you can. I could even find a fold on the river but I think calling is correct.

Bad luck. But the most absolute worst thing that could happen with this hand is V1 could rack up. He's beyond terrible.

Yeah .. more information is needed but ...

What does it tell the table when you open for 6x and then only bet 50% pot OOP? We don't know the standard bets for you or the table in this type of hand flow, but when OOP multi-way as the PF raiser you typically want to c-bet a little bigger to try and get HU. BUT more importantly you want to charge them a bigger price to continue. You immediately give 3 to 1 to call to the first V, then 4 to 1 is offered to the 2nd V .. et.

Turn really hits the board ... you are still OOP .. you really, really need to charge any draws that may want to continue and also be willing to gii/fold if played back at depending on stack sizes. 60% pot is not enough here.

Most of us are going to call this River (depending on other factors not listed here yet) but getting sucked out on is part of the game. Just make sure that you charge enough for V to be -EV to continue. So look at the 'how', not the result when going forward.

Even if you want to leave the Flop bet AP, you really need to get value from the Turn when it hits the board (and their calling ranges from Flop) that hard. Value comes from knowing the maximum amount a V is willing to call without folding. When a card hits the board like this Turn does then recognize it and charge 'extra' to the V willing to continue. If you get played back at, then you need to make a decision based on V type and stack sizes .. both of which you left out in your OP. GL

The Hero didn't butcher the hand, if anyone did, the dealer did.

Why would you be desperate to want A8o to fold on the flop? Did you look at his cards and then look at the cards at the top of the deck?

Hero opened for 6x ... We can certainly expect a bet of 1.67x that bet could be considered small when trying to continue OOP and multi-way IMO.

Not knowing the stacks and 'standard' plays makes it tough to judge but I would certainly think that a 50%psb c-bet is considered somewhat weak regardless of the level of game we are playing when OOP. GL

the flop bet is absolutely fine, there are few draws and its generally hard for our opponents to have many strong hands on this board. We need to bet an amount that they will call, not push them out with a potsized bet.

river is actually pretty tricky with stack sizes since both v's called on turn. Against some V's you could argue for a tiny bet/fold, shove for value, check call or check fold. Pretty player dependent imo

Yep, I'm with you, hero did open for 6x. I'm not sure what's wrong with that. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "We can certainly expect a bet of 1.67x that bet..."

Also, as far as the cbet, I'm not sure what's wrong with a 50%P cbet here. The board is dry and, unless I'm missing something, why does it matter that we are OOP? We've flopped top set on a dry board with 100bb stacks, so we are getting it in.

Betting half pot on the flop does charge the draws. If one of these Vs has 86 for an OESD, then they've got 8 outs and a 16% (5.3:1) chance of hitting on the turn. We are offering 3:1 (25%) and possibly 4:1 (20%) if the first V calls; all of these odds are below 5.3:1, so I'm not understanding how we are not charging draws here.

Additionally, the pot is rainbow so we aren't worried about any flush draws. Also, we should know we are betting the turn, so we are not giving them a free card on the river.

Thanks everyone. I was betting $10 on the flop to attract callers (only two other players), not push them away. I had a monster. Wouldn't you agree?

I think betting more on the turn may have been a good idea. However, with V1 holding A8, I wanted him to call my turn bet.

Basically, all of my bets were for value.

I think +EV says play it very similar, or the same way and I'll make a lot of money on this hand.

Maybe make my turn bet twice as large to make it obvious that he has no pot odds to call. The problem with this, is that I have a monster and I'll likely lose two callers ($60).

Why would you overbet the pot to charge draws? OK, here's a question, and a good exercise. You didn't give the suits of the flop, but let's say that the 9h puts two hearts on board. What's the minimum you have to bet to charge the 8h7h? (this also assumes you don't have the Qh)

Edit from my earlier post: I know the "4+2" rule are estimates, so I checked ProPokerTools.com and 86 has 20.57% equity with one card to come.

Flop bet is fine, you have the nuts and want callers.

Turn bet is too small. Pretty unlikely anyone has 68, but now straight and possibly flush draws become viable; you have to charge them.

Standard. Maybe 15 otf.

What does it mean to charge?
I'm assuming to change the pot odds so it is not in their benefit to call?

In your example, are we saying that V1 has 8h and the board (after the turn) is showing 9h/7h?

I can't find a fold OTR.I'm calling.

BTW,bet slightly bigger OTF

I mean how much do you need to bet so the pot odds you are offering are lower than the odds of 8h7h hitting their straight or flush?

The first step is to count the number of outs that 8h7h has to beat a set of queens on the river. This exercise assumes the 9h puts two hearts on the board, so let's say the board reads Qc7d5h9h, and you've got QsQd.

He has 12 outs.

9 hearts and 3 sixes (6H already counted).

3.8-1

I would have to make it so he has less than 3.8-1 pot odds.

I don't know how to calculate what to charge him.
I'm a limit player.

And? There's $24+ in the pot. Why are we betting $10?

Sorry, I guess we are not on the same page. I thought you said in your post to PF raise to $15 or $20. It appears you were saying this in reference to the flop bet; my bad.

I count only $19.50 in the pot. Aren't we three handed for $6 a piece plus $1 from the BB and $0.50 from the SB?

So the V has 9 outs for the flush, but you need to subtract the Qh because it gives you quads, so they've got 8 outs for the flush. Plus, they've got four 6s that give them a straight; so that's an additional 4 outs. So, they've got a total of 12 outs to beat you.

Let's turn 12 outs into equity, so the with one card to come, the "4+2" rules says that your equity is approximately 24%. As you can see by the simulator below, they really have 25%.

So, let's turn 25% into odds. 25% equals 3:1 odds. So their odds to hit on the river are 3:1.

We need to offer them something lower than 3:1. The pot on the turn is $50. So what bet offers 3:1? A half pot bet offers 3:1. So we need to bet something bigger than half pot. If we bet $30, we are offering our V, ((50+30):30) or 2.7:1. If we bet $35, we are offering our V, ((50+35):35) or 2.4:1.

So the minimum we have to bet is $26, which would offer our V the pot odds of 2.9:1. Since they have odds of 3:1 to hit the winner, we are correctly charging this draw.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

44 trials (Exhaustive)

board: Q759

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
QsQd	75.00%	33	0
8h7h	25.00%	11	0

Awesome. Thanks.