This is the second time I've seen you ask a question like this, about what range we're giving V. I'm not sure why. We can't do this sort of calc in game, so I'm guessing you're trying to figure out a range for V that would support your in-game decision?

Just like before, I'll give you the same answer. I'm not trying to figure out every hand a V may have in his range when I'm in-game, in spots where V's holding is likely to be very specific.

Right on the flop, I'd be narrowing his continue range to 88, 33, and flush draws, and I'd be expecting 88/33 to raise, when the board is two-tone.

If we want to get more specific, we can give him every nut flush draw combo, every Broadway combo, and every combo with an 8 or a BD wheel draw, but how many and which flush draw combos he has doesn't change my approach to how I play flop, turn, and river, especially not when the flush comes in.

I'd be betting big, 2/3 pot, starting from the flop. My reasoning is that opponents love to chase their draws at low stakes, and it'll become increasingly harder to extract value from opponents on each street, unless and until they make their hand, so we want to get as much value as we can, as soon as we can.

If you want to be greedy, I'm fine going 1/3 pot on flop, and full pot or even an over-bet on turn. We must charge flush draws the max to see the river.

I don't think V has many, if any bluffs on this run-out, when you raise pre, and go bet-bet-bet, and he jams over top on the river. I don't think he's playing A3, A8, or J8 this way. The only over-plays I'd even consider giving him would be 86s, and that's being very optimistic.

It may be worth mentioning - when we're doing the betting, so long as we're using a bet size that is close to "normal", the fact that we're continuing to bet tells our opponents more about our hand strength than the specific sizing we use.

So, going 1/2, 1/2, 1/2 doesn't necessarily indicate less strength than 2/3, 2/3, 2/3. V might just think you're being greedy or making a mistake with a smaller sizing on earlier streets. But if he understands odds, he should understand you're giving him a good price to chase.

That said, when you do take a smaller sizing, like 1/2 instead of 2/3, I'd think you could conceivably have some flushes here, so his worse value hands like 86 would just be bluff-catchers. He shouldn't turn those into bluffs by jamming with them.

In game, I'd be thinking V has a flush >90% of the time, and is bluffing or over-playing a worse value hand <10% of the time.

Hero has only 245 left and there's over 800 in after villain raises. I think they have enough nonsense in their range that folding is not good.

But i disagree with the way the hand was played overall. I think we went way too small on turn and I think river is bad too. I just think folding now given everything else is bad.

Apparently math brain failed me. You are correct, hero has 245 left, not 345.

I'm disappointed you didn't give the exact pot total and pot odds, which I have as $846 with $245 left to call, making the odds about 3.45 to 1. As long as you're correcting my math, you may as well go ahead and finish my homework for me.

So...I see where you're going here. There's almost $850 in the pot, and we're getting almost 3.5 to 1 on a call. Unfortunately, the way this was played, I just can't see flicking it in. At least not in the 2/5 games where I play, unless I have a very reliable and specific read on my opponent, and I'm pretty confident he's FOS.

I am aware you play in TX, where the games are wilder than a pissed-off steer, and this may be an auto-call. In a tougher game, it isn't. It's the opposite.

Don't know where our OP plays, but he's got V pegged as a calling station, who's apparently played over half the hands he's been dealt over the previous 5 orbits, called down one big bluff with 1P, and made one big river bluff himself.

If we're 8 handed, he's been dealt 40 hands, played more than 20, and made one bluff. If we're 9 handed, it's 45 hands, over 23 played. We're looking at a guy who likes to call, not a guy who likes to bluff. At the risk of doing bad maths again, it sounds like this guy's bluffing frequency is under 5%, so we'd need better than 20:1 odds to call here.

Even if we start backing out all the hands he played that didn't get to showdown, and the ones that he won without bluffing, still, OP's read wasn't, "this a$$-hat gets caught bluffing 3-4 times an orbit."

I will allow that hero's 1/2 pot bet sizing on every street not only allows V to get to the river with a wide range of holdings, it's also likely to induce all sorts of spaz-filled nonsense. But there again, I revert back to the fact that hero raised pre and went bet-bet-bet. The fact that hero bet every street is likely to mean more to an opponent than the bet sizing.

Someone confident enough to bet every street for value might still be unwise enough to under-size all their bets, hoping to keep V's range as wide as possible.

Facing hero's line, V's call-call-jam line here is very rarely going to be a bluff.

Im in Florida, which is pretty close to Texas for wildness, so yea depending on where you play maybe it's different. I just see so much random stuff. I honestly cant believe how often ive seen hands play out like this where someone jams for a small amount more in a big pot and just has total air or some wacky weak value that makes no sense.

I also play in Florida and agree with the above.

*checking home prices in Florida...*

I never thought that betting 1/2 pot on the turn instead of 2/3 could get me into so much trouble. Now I know.

Thanks, everyone, for humiliating once more on 2+2.

I hope you don't actually feel humiliated. You asked for input and got it. I didn't see anything here that was insulting, just critical of your play.

We've all made similar mistakes, I'm sure. Personally, I look back with embarrassment when I remember how often I'd be taking absurdly large sizing with all my c-bets and barrels, then wondering how my opponents always seemed to have slow-played the flopped nuts.

I’m actually moving to Florida next month

Congratulations, you will definitely enjoy the games here. What area of the state? Im in smack dab central FL.

Port charlotte area

We all make mistakes. Its much easier to make the right play when reading someones post on here than it is to make it in real time at the table. Especially live when exact stack sizes and pot size are not perfectly calculated on a screen. I make sizing mistakes quite often.

The most frustrating is the prevalence of short stacks in live play where you end up having to call off in spots youd rather not after making a 3bet because of pot odds.

I think full pot or more on the turn is better. I think 2/3 is still a mistake. In a field of 5 or so that saw the flop he called. It means he has 88/33/A8/A3/Ax or a flush draw and it sounds like preflop is not going to dissuade him from calling with any suited hand so the combos are numerous, and I would say make up at least half of his range after the flop. He's not folding 88/33/A8/A3 so we don't care about sizing. He may fold A-rag but even terrible players will fold low Ax here for 1/2 pot. I'm trying to trivially get stacks in or cause him to make a huge mistake with a flush draw.

Based on the read, would AQo sometimes too? At 1/2 few people ever 3bet. But on this table, players 3bet more than once per orbit.

Based on the read I wouldn't even assume he 3bets AK. The better the player is, I can def give him AK and maybe AQ but a calling station playing half his hands would be very nutted if he even 3bets at all in my experience.

Taking out AK:
Board: As3s8hJc6s
Equity Win Tie
UTG 44.00% { AdAh }
HJ 56.00% { 88, 33, A8s, A3s, KsQs, KsJs, QsJs, KsTs, QsTs, Ks9s, Qs9s, Ks8s, Js8s, Ts8s, 9s8s, 9s7s, 8s7s, 8s6s, 7s6s, 6s5s, 5s4s, AJo }

Yes, but humility in poker is a virtue. Losers suffer the overconfidence fallacy. They think they understand the game even though they've never written a hand history, let alone post it to 2+2. They do not know that they do not know, the most dangerous form of not knowing. Some of these players have courage, another poker virtue. They miss that the value of courage rises when paired with humility.

All I'm saying is I hope you're not actually humiliated because you received some constructive feedback.

I got people on here flaming me left and right, but I don't know any of them, so it's hard to feel embarrassed.

You do you, bro. Sounds like you're getting along alright.

Your 1/2 pot bets are making it very easy for him. If he's a calling station, as you say, then charge him a higher price for any draws. He picked off a bluff with 88, so make some money.