Fun hand I had, looking to get some feedback on it.

Hero MP- Youngest kid at table, at this particular casino I'm no reg by any means but I'll come 4-6 times a month and most people know me, very friendly with everybody. Seen as a winning player and even though I play basic TAG in EP and MP, my age + presence + ability to LAG it up harder in later positions and exploit nits with random holdings at showdown I tend to get looked up lighter by the people who can't tell how I'm adjusting.

Villain HJ- late 20s, Regular at this casino one of those who puts on a show of how "pro" they are but are really a breakeven player (at best.) due to some of the worse players at this table has chipped up a decent amount, Plays a pretty standard ABC game, can tend to loosen up in position but it feels to me he is not yet fully comfortable being able to transition to a full laggy villain in later position and when opening up his range is going to quite sticky when put in tough positions and has a tendency to somewhat spazz out when he senses weakness (although he probably doesn't see this as a leak as he is usually against passive villains that will fold to his blind aggression) Villain has 1100 and hero covers. I have also found a tell that after he looks at his cards preflop and places a chip overtop to protect that is his stronger holdings that he will happily 3bet with

Stack Sizes
Villain - 1100
Hero - Covers

Preflop - folds, 1 limp, Hero looks down at A 10
Hero glances over at villain who looks at his cards and quickly puts them down and places a chip overtop them.

Hero....

Raise to 25. What would you categorize as "strong holdings" for V when he gives his "live tell"

Oh dear.

Could be a really short PAHWM.

I'd open fold.

Good work spotting a likely tell and also looking to your left before you act. Great stuff.

Now use that information appropriately.

You know villain probably has a "stronger holding" - likely strong enough to be a 3-bet hand. Against such a range, ATs is very weak, and you're going to be out of position.

There's really no reason to do anything but snap fold.. do not limp/call... do not raise/call.. do not raise/4-bet.. do not raise/fold.. do not pass go.

Limp. When he raises and get callers from couple of people call if you want to see the flop for good price. Try to flop nut draw, combo draw, trip 10 or two pair without any face card. Don't stack him with TP bad kicker.

How much fun would that be?

I usually would agree with you in a spot like this but when thinking about how future streets play (which I will post my thought process on later) it seemed to me I had a few other options.

I'll get a few more responses than continue.

Ah man, lets get some conversation going...Hero Raises to 25

Villain tanks then raises to 75

fold to hero who thinks it's time to exploit, Hero....

If we know that V will raise when we limp, and 3 bet when we raise, we should limp, and keep our SPR high.

o_O why did you raise when you knew he was going to repop you? Limp and see a flop for a decent price.

As played do you know if he has anything he 3bet/folds? If he 3bets like, AK/AJs, JJ+ for value but only continues with KK+ after a 4bet, you can turn your hand into a bluff. If he folds postflop when he misses his Ax hands, you can call and try to take it down postflop. If he's really strong and not caving in postflop you just lit $25 on fire and need to fold.

Dude you are fked here... You know v is gonna raise and u also have button to think of.. Theres now way u can get this ip...

I would honestly prob limp/call in this spot... And as played you cant ever play this hand oop in a 3 bet pot against a moderately good player profitably..

So as played to the 3 bet a fold is actually correct

yeah raising is kind of stupid in this spot. how reliable are you on this tell?

And let me guess the flop came out something like KJ10cc and u somehow manage to win?

raise to $25 pre. i may raise to $30 or $35 if i keep getting 2+ callers with $25. as played fold to reraise.

Really here the only counter argument that I would have to agree with would IR2M that intentionally setting up lower SPR's on the flop is a disaster with our hand... but is it really a mistake to be setting up a lower SPR with my perceived 4 bet range?

In my thoughts he would be having an average 6-8% 3 bet range, but when we raise the stakes with a 4bet something that he is not comfortable with it turns his hand face up and easy to manage on the flop.

If I come in with a 4 bet I can put his 5 betting range on KK and AA pretty specifically. I would put his 4 bet calling range on AK-AQ Suited and unsuited, TT-QQ, KQ suited and a super discounted KK.

When I have a plan for pretty much all streets and the percentage that the flop comes A x x (which should be super limited with me holding and ace and him likely holding an ace when he flats) is super low as well as a k x x being low. With the combos of hands he calls my 4 bet with being favored highly in the AQ-AK suited or unsuited range can't I pretty much work him any way I want post flop?

No not really...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I guess this thread will just be us sitting back and watching the spew-fest. I knew Hero was going to 4bet as soon as I saw the post where he raised.

"I have a tell that Villain is strong. I'm going to try to fold out the weakest part of his strong range with a multi-street bluff."

Before you post any more action in this thread, have you tried sitting down and doing the probability/combinatorics to see how much you lose against the TOP of Villain's range and how that compares to what you win against the bottom of it?

So when he flats and we have an Axx flop, what's our plan? Bet/fold? Bet/call? Check/fold? Check/jam?

Whats the plan on K high flops? Q high flops? We dont have any maneuverability after we 4 bet. Stack sizes get shallow. With likely 3 - 4 PSB remaining.

On T high flops are we stacking off? Are we check/folding?

After my session I came home and did just that, In game I guess truthfully the ego overtook my brain for preflop action. Still once that is over with and I can recognize and understand that is a mistake, I still needed to analyze the highest EV move nonetheless for what happens post flop.

Definitely understand this; I've had this happen to me a few times. When I am in-game, the biggest thing I worry about in spots like this is, "Don't compound mistakes." It sounds from some of your posts in this thread so far that you are about to compound the mistake you made preflop, but I guess we'll see.

Hero Opens to 25 with A10

Vil Tanks then 3 bets to 75

Fold to hero who 4 bets to 225

Villain goes deep into tank for like 3-4 minutes with disgust gets called clock on by someone else then finally calls.

Flop

Q 6 J

I just don't get the 4bet...

Also get ready to induce variance when flopping a royal draw against a likely set

Mack, I think we're not understanding here, and if you can answer one question it'll help:

How are you using villain's pre-flop tell to adjust your strategy?

I mean, ATs is normally an open raising hand pre-flop from MP. So raising to $25 over 1 limper is incredibly standard. So that isn't an "adjustment." And now you're planning to 4-bet... again, how did your very good tell drive that strategy? If you're going to 4-bet, why does it even matter that you had a tell that informed you villain would 3-bet before he made the 3-bet?

So I think we might get on the same page if you explain how you're adjusting based on your tell.

Again, the right play is to open-fold pre. The second best play is to limp/call pre, but that is still so, so meh. You will be check/folding most flops, the AJ+, AA part of his range dominates you, it will be hard to extract if you hit, you will be out of position the entire hand with a marginal hand facing a very strong hand range, etc. And I think the worst play is to raise/4-bet, but maybe you can help us understand that better...

Well after the hand it self I felt that my preflop was a mistake, I have been trying to improve upon my game to non standard and more exploitative lines recently which went into my thought process but this was my thought process throughout the hand to the flop.

Villain in this hand is just starting to transition into laggy play in the later position so he will be 3 betting a bit wider, as well as I feel he is not completely confident in his postflop play against a player he deems smart and does not really want to tangle with me as I can switch it up pretty easily, this makes me put his 5 betting range on specifically AA and KK, and because he has been 3 betting a little wider it will widen out his 4 bet calling range naturally as he isn't adjusting correctly (he is just narrowing his wider 3 betting range into a narrower and transparent 4 bet calling range)

I put his 4 bet calling range on
AK suited - 3 combos
AK offsuit - 9 combos
AQ Suited - 3 combos
AQ offsuit - lower the combos to half - 5 combos
TT - 3 combos
JJ - 6 combos
QQ - 6 combos
KQ suited - 4 combos

(this is all prior to my 4 betting btw)

So he will have an ace in his hand in about half the hands he does have, I have an ace in my hand so that will drastically lower the chances of an ace hitting on the flop, The chances of a king hitting a flop (although not as significant) will be dropped a bit as well. Since he is so sticky postflop and I'm pretty sure he would not be confidant playing for stacks with TT-QQ's on a low board as I am repping AA and KKs in my range heavily, The other hands should be folded out with post flop aggression, add that to the times that I hit this board and it didn't seem so bad at the time I was thinking.

When I came home and thought a little deeper about it, it should have just been an open fold but I guess I leveled/ego'd myself into making a preflop mistake at the time, I do think I handled the rest of the hand well though.

I definitely don't hate your reasoning here. Any time they you can take an aggro line and make it +EV versus a tight player you should, because image (and also because it's more fun, but taking lines just because they're fun is a leak). However, raising (and especially raising that big) is kind of stupid because you're committing yourself to setting up a low SPR. Limp-3betting is a much cheaper way to set up the same postflop situation.

4 bet seems bad if you know V has a strong hand with are you trying to get him to fold? He's not folding TT-KK, AK. Maybe AQ but is he 3 betting AQ?

What is your entire range for making this play from this spot? Are you doing this with 87cc? 99?