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Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Semi-bluff flop with combo draw?

02-02-2017 , 12:07 PM
1/2 club game.

H (UTG, $700) - 35 y.o. white male. should have a winning aggressive image to V2-V4, with whom H has a ton of hours played. Pretty unknown to V1. Haven't had any big hands yet tonight except getting all in with KJ v. V2's K9 pre for about $100 and losing.
V1 (UTG+2, covers) - 30-ish Asian male. Playing almost all hands pre, some for a raise other for a limp. Has randomly gone all in with a huge stack a couple of time. Unknown to H before tonight.
V2 (UTG+3, $200) - 35 yo nittish reg. Loves to limp raise and even flat raise monster hands pre. Usually playing scared money.
V3 (HJ, $900) - 30 yo women, complete fish. Calls almost ATC pre unless there's been a 3-bet, and sometimes with a 3 bet. Won her stack getting it in with J9 $500 deep in a 4 way pot and sucking out. Bets small with top pair, bets bigger with two pair plus. Never bluffs. Complete station and the mark at the game.
V4 (Btn, $300) - 35 yo good TAG.

H is UTG with JTcc. H limps. V1 makes it $11. V2, V3 and V4 call. H calls.

Initial limp obviously can be debated, but H very much wants to see hands with V4 this deep, especially with a good speculative hand. When it comes back around to H, call seems completely standard for $9 more closing the action. Don't think H has much fold equity with a limp/reraise, as V3 is a complete station, V1 seems station, and V2 like to slowplay monsters pre.

Flop ($55) - Kc9c7s. Hero is first to act and checks. V1 checks, and V2 makes it $50. Folds back to Hero.

I thought flop check first to act was pretty clear. Didn't think I'd clear the field here if I lead into everyone, and planned to checkraise V1 if he opened, especially if there was one or more caller.

When V2 leads almost pot-sized without initiative, he's never bluffing, and basically at worst has a good K. H is basically getting direct odds to call, and V1 may come along. H's normal line against V2 is to semi-bluff, but the question is whether H has any FE or should just try to bink either a flush or (even better) the disguised double gutter draw.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:27 PM
I think pre is fine in this line up. I'd want to see a flop with that hand, even OOP, and I don't see any reason to raise and bloat the pot.

Since V2 has <$150 behind, I probably just raise this now. You might have some FE and if not, you should have plenty of outs.

If V1 were shallow, too, I'd let him in, but he covers and is basically an unknown. I'm not as happy if I flat the $50 and V1 raises big.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:28 PM
I think that V2 range here is KK, 99, 77, AA, AK, KQ.
So I don't think he can fold to our reis and our FE is close to 0 and we are out of position.
I think call is the only option here.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:36 PM
Think jamming is fine here...even if V2 flatted an absolute monster like KK pre you've got 41% and even in the worst case scenario like he has AQcc or A7cc you've still got more 35% equity.

Given your reads if you call the 50 and hit a flush on the turn or river are you getting paid for the last 150? Especially considering you said he plays scared money?

I'd probably want to GII now so we can get paid when we realize out equity vs his range.

Even if he's never folding the flop to our jam we are over 50% against any top pairs and two pair hands.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:36 PM
We have a double gutter + 3rdNFD.

The only hand were worried about V1 having is Axcc and Qxcc, and they are going to make a small % of his range of he's that loose. We want to raise, but we don't want V1 to fold yet.

I think I click it back to 100-115, hope V1 calls and V2 shoves, now we can raise liberally since V1 has called, probably like 300
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevate11
Think jamming is fine here...


Jamming 700 into a pot of 60 with a player who covers us still has action? Wat?!?
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
Jamming 700 into a pot of 60 with a player who covers us still has action? Wat?!?
Oops, I thought action folded entirely to us and it was heads up...Misread v1 had yet to act. My bad disregard. Raise to 135 with the intention to reraise GII if V1 calls and V2 shoves
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:49 PM
I call. If it was just you and V2 I think it would be a pretty easy Rip, but with all these juicy spots to act behind I think you want to just call.

If we click it back we probably get heads up in a pot with approx. 50% equity. Not a bad spot with dead money in there at all. But if we just call, maybe we can bring along V3 and V1. Since we have a strong draw our equity to win the hand shouldn't change much with the additional players, but potential profit is much greater.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevate11
Given your reads if you call the 50 and hit a flush on the turn or river are you getting paid for the last 150? Especially considering you said he plays scared money?
Pretty close, since V would have less than a PSB behind if I call. I think I can get paid on a flush, but he could find a fold. He's scared money, but not completely MUBSY and he may not be deep enough to be worried about it. Pretty certain I stack him if I hit my non-flush straight cards.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 12:54 PM
Open this hand pre.

$170 now
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 01:29 PM
I don't mind the limp/call PF given stack sized although I probably open it myself.

I like a flop call hoping that V1 comes along. There's probably a better than normal chance of this happening given his PF looseness. If V1 had already folded and we were heads up, I would like a raise (if he could fold top pair).
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 01:34 PM
He gii pre-flop w/ K9 for $100 -- I doubt he's folding top pair here, and I don't want him too

Now that I think about it, I don't want him to fold anything except a better flush draw or a set, which I doubt is ever happening.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
He gii pre-flop w/ K9 for $100 -- I doubt he's folding top pair here, and I don't want him too
Now that I think about it, I don't want him to fold anything except a better flush draw or a set, which I doubt is ever happening.
I screwed up the HH here (too many Vs and posting during work). V3 gii pre-flop w/ K9. V2 never would do that.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 02:51 PM
Raise pre targeting V3.

Make a small raise. Ideally V1 calls and V2 shoves. You can then repop it. More often than not, V1 folds and you can gii vs. V2.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 03:21 PM
Why are some saying that we want to let V1 in? We have J high...

Just raise we are dead even $ with KK+, 99, 77, AK, A10cc-AQcc
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 03:35 PM
Raise and then say "I hope you have aces" after V1 calls and before V2 tank calls his set.

But more importantly just open raise, you'll see a flop virtually always, and JTs flops equity on like 99.9% of flops or so it seems.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Raise and then say "I hope you have aces" after V1 calls and before V2 tank calls his set.

But more importantly just open raise, you'll see a flop virtually always, and JTs flops equity on like 99.9% of flops or so it seems.
I go back and forth on whether to raise here. On the one hand, raising sometimes allows me to whiff flop, c-bet and take it down. However, V3 is almost certainly calling a raise pre and is super sticky post-flop, so I drastically cut my c-bets when she's in a hand. The problem with raising is that I set myself up to get c-bet, especially by V4 who could walk into a great squeeze spot where he can get me to fold and isolate V3 in a big pot.

Obviously the results here where pretty much ideal. I put in $11 pre flop and get to close the action and see a multi way pot with tons of money behind.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 08:24 PM
I simply have JTs cemented as an EP open raise given its unique playability post on boards perceived both good and bad for UTG ranges. I think it's far harder to play without initiative.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-02-2017 , 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiltyjoker
Why are some saying that we want to let V1 in? We have J high...

Just raise we are dead even $ with KK+, 99, 77, AK, A10cc-AQcc


I don't want V1 in, I want to sandwich V1 in between a 2 bet and a shove that I come over the top of, effectively pushing him out after he's invested 100 in the pot

It's the fanciest of fancy plays.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-04-2017 , 11:44 AM
So when V2 bets into the field without initiative I'm putting him on TPGK (i.e. KQ+) and with just $150 behind I don't think I can get a fold. I'm also not too worried V1 coming along because my draw is so strong and I think he'd c bet a better flush draw. Also think I may not face a huge bet on turn so get to realize my equity cheapish. If stacks were about $100 deeper I'd probably raise to try to get a fold.

Anyway, I flat. Turn is 8d (Yahtzee!). I check, V1 bets 25 and I shove 125 more. He calls and his AA is no good.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-04-2017 , 12:18 PM
Raise pre.

Call flop.
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote
02-04-2017 , 02:16 PM
Why don't you bloat the pot when have the edge with 'double gutter" + Flush
Having straingh-flush draw vs. two opponents = 62% and you don't know what to do? ...LOL... No good and very sad!
Semi-bluff flop with combo draw? Quote

      
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