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Screwy Bill Hickock hand Screwy Bill Hickock hand

10-26-2019 , 02:32 AM
1-3 $500 buy in Vegas early in a session. Hero, 60ish WM, $400 in MP with Ad8d.

V1 $500 40ish WM (no history as yet) UTG+1 opens for $15, i call, perhaps a bit speculative but I had position and stacks were deep enough. Button $450 (thinking 40's regular) calls, blinds fold.

Flop $49: As8s3h, and V1 leads for $30. With top two, I only call trying to trap a big A, and willing to fade a flush draw. Button calls. Comments?

Turn $139: 3s The board pairs and the flush draw got there. V1 makes a small $40 bet. My action?
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10-26-2019 , 03:27 AM
Preflop: We are only 133bb deep. Flat-calling a suited ace first in after an open is a money-loser. I fold here without hesitation.

On the flop, OP says they hope to trap a big A. A big A is going to call a reasonably sized raise here. An action-killer card may fall on the turn. Let's extract value while we can. Raise for value here, making it something like $90. Even clicking it back is better than just calling.

As played, what can we do but call? Villain's sizing suggests that either they are not happy with this card or they are trying to sucker top-pair hands. This is classic way ahead/way behind. Folding is bad, and raising is bad. Just call.

If the river is a brick and the villain checks to us, we should bet a third to a half a pot, targeting big aces, folding if raised.

If the villain bets a brick river, we have a decision to make. How many flushes does the villain have in their three-barreling range? The As on the board blocks a lot of their starting flush combos. Would they play KsQs this way with these sizings? What about Ts9s. There oughtn't be many 33 in their range, either. We block both AA and 88, leaving one combo each.

I think I would likely call a polarizing bet size if the river card were an offsuit 9 or lower, but think twice if it was a card that made a possible big two pair, say a K or Q.

Of course if the river is an A or 8 we are golden, and can size our action to extract maximum value.
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10-26-2019 , 04:53 AM
Alan nailed it.

For the tl,dr crowd, fold preflop.
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10-26-2019 , 05:51 AM
If we call flop we give excellent pot odds to the third player to get a third spade. As played, I call turn
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10-26-2019 , 06:30 AM
As played call turn.

I hate trapping in low stakes. Garrett can do it with confidence but I can't. I make it 100 raise flop.
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10-26-2019 , 09:12 AM
So far, the consensus is that I misplayed pre-flop and on the flop, with advice to call the turn. For consistency, i raised the turn to 110. Both Vs call.

River: ($469). 8c- giving me 8's full of Aces on a A8338 board with three to a spade flush.

V1 again mini-leads for $100. Do I raise here making it obvious that I have an 8 or do I just call and try to bring in the Button?
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10-26-2019 , 11:13 AM
Jam on the river. Pot is quite large and even if you shove both Villains have good pot odds to call
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10-26-2019 , 11:19 AM
Any action but folding makes it look like you have a very strong hand but you should still move all in. Your goal here is to get 8X or 3X to call and possibly get a hero call from the nut flush. Nothing else should consider sticking around anyways.

Expect both villains to fold to your raise a lot. But flatting doesn't get you any more if V2 has any sense.
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10-26-2019 , 11:30 AM
Think you should be 3b/folding pre. Vs utg+1 not recommended but you block some ace combos. As played, rr flop for value.
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10-26-2019 , 11:43 AM
I don't think we should be using blockers to 3-bet-bluff in a 1-3 game, even in a nitty Vegas 1-3 game.

And if we were so minded, I would really rather use a hand like A5s or A4s, which can make straights and so has a bit more equity versus hands that might call us, than A8s.
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10-26-2019 , 12:17 PM
Grunch: dead man's hand is BLACK aces and 8s. You have Ad8d in the hole. Get it together! Screwy Bill Hickock hand

Pre: fold, his range is likely very strong compared to A8s. You can 3-bet if no loose short stacks behind and you think he's actually opening loosely.
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10-26-2019 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
I don't think we should be using blockers to 3-bet-bluff in a 1-3 game, even in a nitty Vegas 1-3 game.

And if we were so minded, I would really rather use a hand like A5s or A4s, which can make straights and so has a bit more equity versus hands that might call us, than A8s.
Just to add to this, we are incentivized to 3bet polar if our opponent is going to implement a 4bet or fold strategy. But in these games, 4bet ranges are super tight (usually KK+/AK), and players call too wide. Therefore we really want to 3bet a linear range of mostly PPs and suited connectors/suited broadways.

I can see an argument for flatting A8s on the BTN, since we are guaranteed position. Against an EP opening range, A8s is a snap fold from HJ or earlier. CO is pretty marginal. If BTN calls wide I think fold is mandatory. If BTN is tight I think we can call in CO.
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10-26-2019 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
I don't think we should be using blockers to 3-bet-bluff in a 1-3 game, even in a nitty Vegas 1-3 game.

And if we were so minded, I would really rather use a hand like A5s or A4s, which can make straights and so has a bit more equity versus hands that might call us, than A8s.
I don't agree with this as a general statement for 1-3. Against an unknown, I wouldn't. But if your image is nitty you can find loose weak players at 1-3 where 3bet bluffing is printing money. And yes a suited wheel ace would be better.
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10-26-2019 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
I don't think we should be using blockers to 3-bet-bluff in a 1-3 game, even in a nitty Vegas 1-3 game.
Having blockers still helps a lot when 3-betting light. Situational light 3-bets or just not making them at all are both viable strategies, but having an Ace when doing it will always have a significant benefit.

As for the hand, I'd just call again. I'd have probably raised the flop though. A big ace will have a hard time folding to a flop raise.
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10-28-2019 , 11:04 AM
Preflop is fairly meh with the world still to react behind us (could get squeezed out, will mostly always not end up in position, and if it does even end up HU it's doubtful we'll realize our required IO).

I'm fine with the flop flat. But if we're worried about this guy folding to a raise when we're in position, it also goes to show how meh our IO might actually be. ETA: I don't hate a call as much as others, but it really depends on (a) how nitty our image is and (b) how often we think villain will fold a big Ace face up to us.

Really weird bet by V1. Most everyone with just Ax here slows down against 2 opponents when the only draw gets there; pretty much the only thing that we're beating is like AxKs. And on top of the we still have the other guy to react behind us (again why preflop is so meh). With the good Button behind us (what can be possibly be just calling with preflop and overcalling flop with that we're beating?), I think I might manage a nitty fold here in spite of the good odds.

ETA: The turn is between a fold and a call (I can understand why some don't want to fold given these odds, but I still think it's meh given this total action), but raising is just horrible, imo. As played, I just flat the river donk to invite the Button to overcall; given this action, there is still a real chance we're behind so we're better off attempting to make our money passively (and I would consider folding if the Button ships). Kinda has the makings of a BBV lol AA vs 33 hand, but I still think we made a lotta poor decisions.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 10-28-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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10-28-2019 , 10:00 PM
Results: I agree with GG and others that I made a series of poor decisions here, especially flatting the flop and raising the turn. The only saving grace was that V1 made an even worse decision on the turn. He had A3, turned a boat, and yet failed to shove after my turn raise and the button called, which allowed me to hit a two outer on the river.

My just calling on the river kept the button in the hand and he showed QJs for the flush. One thought I had on the turn with V1s small bet is that he could have played AA this way. The old adage is proven out that we make our money on opponents mistakes not our own brilliance, and at times, in spite of our own mistakes.
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