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River shove in live 1/3 game River shove in live 1/3 game

08-10-2019 , 07:06 AM
1/3 NL holdem cash game

Hero: TAG image $460 stack
Villian: plays 80-90% of starting hands. Chip leader $1000

Early position raiser $10 raise, late position calls, Villian on button calls. Hero calls on BB with 98o.

Pot: ~$40
Flop: K98 rainbow
Checks around to Villian, bets $25
Hero calls
Late position calls
Early position pre flop raiser folds.
3 people in pot now

P0t: ~$115
Turn is an 8 (rainbow still)
Check, check, Villian bets $65, hero calls, other player folds
(Hero is check calling with full house to get value from bluff range as Villian)

BUT

River is Ace. $255 in pot so far, hero planning to check call.
Hero checks, villain goes all in putting hero's stack of approx $360 all in.

Hero ???

Thinking is villain is repping a full house here who is trying to get value from a lower full house or trips.

Why such a huge river shove? Do you fold here?

Last edited by Garick; 08-11-2019 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Added hand, removed results
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-10-2019 , 08:09 AM
What is your hand?
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-10-2019 , 09:42 AM
Given your description 98 is the only hand that makes sense for hero. If you check a boat on the turn to let villain bluff you can't fold to a bet without some super strong read. Don't trust anything villain says after the hand, many players habitually lie.

You didn't say if villain was aggressive post flop but playing 75%+ of hands sounds aggressive. And the board allows for other hands villain could be doing this with. AK might be shoving for value, K9/A9 might be also, JT/76 could be bluffing. Depending on villain there are other hands he could be playing for value or as bluffs. He might also just be over playing something like KQ figuring you are most likely on a worse KX or a 9X by the time you get to river.

There are villains I could get away from this on river but not any aggressive/bluffy enough that I would have taken this line to begin with.
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-10-2019 , 11:25 PM
Yes 98o
Only considering a fold because of the size.
It was a huge river shove and I felt it was a size that wants to get max value from a strong hand.
Thanks for your reply

Last edited by Garick; 08-11-2019 at 07:25 AM. Reason: removed ref to results
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-11-2019 , 07:32 AM
OP, please don't include results (including your final action) in your thread until after discussion dies down, or at least a day after posting. Results bias people's advice.

No offense, but if you are calling raises OOP with 98o and check-calling multi-way with 2pair/boats, your image is not TAG. You need to be betting or raising here somewhere to be able to get stacks in.

AP, you need to tell us more about how V plays post. If he's super loose pre, but fit-or-fold post, I could maybe consider a fold OTR, but against your average super loose V, I could see all sorts of weird crap here and would never fold.
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-14-2019 , 12:42 PM
For this price with these stacks and closing the action, even OOP, I can't hate on preflop. Would mostly boil down to what I think of the players in the pot so far (if there are any marks involved then super fine with it).

I would mostly start going into a bet/evaluate mode, although I don't hate the check/call line either especially if other players are aggro and not payoff stations (especially if our image is nitty). Bottom two pair is a pip above TP; if big stacks end up going in UI against most opponents on, it's rarely good, so I'm cool with passive play with it. When we improve to fullhouse it's pretty opponent dependent how I would lean to playing it (probably donking against the more clueless calling station types and fine with continuing to play it passively against the more aggro cluefull types).

What do we make of Villain? Yeah, he's playing ATC preflop, but how'd he get his big stack? Has he overvalued hands? Has he made some huge bluffs? Is he capable of barreling draws to the felt? Does he 3bet a lot preflop or does he just passively call raises with big hands (such as AK)?

I honestly don't mind the line we took at all, and against a bluffy player who's trying to barrel players off hands then fine (and call river), or against an overvaluey player who somehow shows up with AK here then fine too. I'd only consider folding at this point if some of the read questions above were answered a certain way.

GcluelessNLnoobG
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-14-2019 , 12:51 PM
Once you flat the flop bet and the turn bet, the river is a call.

I would have raised the flop every time. Turn I don't mind the flat, but I bet the river. If you check river, it is only if you are calling this shove.
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote
08-14-2019 , 12:58 PM
never folding river vs this type of player, with this strong of a hand.

For sure would have raised the flop though, $75.

Hand is pretty vulnerable and pretty much any turn above a 4 is bad for your hand, especially if this hand somehow goes 3-4 ways to the turn. Playing your hand with deep stacks on the turn and river becomes pretty challenging. Isolate, get value, and decrease STP ratio for later streets is how I would play this hand.
River shove in live 1/3 game Quote

      
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