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River line check with trips? River line check with trips?

04-27-2014 , 10:42 PM
Game is 25/50 HKD (roughly 2/5$) cash game with all Chinese players except hero.

After 4 hours of playing, UTG has been the most competent villain. Has not shown down anything but has been steadily climbing up and sits at a stack of 8k HKD. Tighter than most of the table but very loose compared to western norms.. plays 25-35% of hands.

One significant hand between hero and UTG was headsup, Hero opened AJs and UTG at that point defended his BB.. flop was 3 small cards, hero cbet 2/3 pot and villain check raised 3.5x and took it down.. besides that no clashes between us and I have not seen any significant hand from him.

Hero has twice stacked up with big hands and sits with a stack of 14k HKD

UTG straddles 100
All folds to hero
Hero opens from CO 250 with AQ
SB calls 250
BB folds
UTG calls

Pot: 800 Flop: Q42
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: 6
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 500
SB folds, UTG raises to 1200, Hero thinks a moment and calls 700
UTG acts overly surprised and says "whaat?!?"

Pot: 3200 River Q
UTG thinks 5 seconds and bets 1500
Hero calls

Pot 6200

Line check please? How is my betsizes and decisions?
River line check with trips? Quote
04-27-2014 , 10:50 PM
Bigger pre.

Flop check is eh. I would usually bet this three way but it's okay on this board.

I want to raise the river but it's hard to construct a range that plays like this, calls a raise on the river, and is worse than our hand. Do you think he plays KQ like this? Would be very strange but not impossible. On the river, I'm usually expecting bluffs (heart draws, pure air, counterfeited 64, etc) and boats and 53s from a competent player.
I think flatting river is better even if it feels weak.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 05:10 AM
Thanks Matzah_ball.

Here is my thinking and reasoning of the actions I took:

Preflop, I think given how deep we were I should go bigger pre. But autopiloted here, in retrospect should definitively go 300-350.

Flop I think it's way ahead way behind situation and betting here will get all weak ranges to fold and only K is the card that would make my life difficult. Board is dry and I'm not sure if I would comfortably get 3 streets of value so I actually prefer the check here.

When he takes the check-raise line on turn I'm thinking that some crazy 53 or a set, but it's a small betsize and he has done this to me before so I'm calling bit light here. His acting on turn doesn't really give me any information I could use..

His river bet is again small and I am thinking of raising but I cannot deduct into any hands that would call me that I'm beating so just opt to call. I don't know how he would betsize nuts here but as afterthought I think if he had a boat I guess he would bet a pot and pray I have a Q.

I called and he showed down KQo which is the one combo I'm actually beating and that would have called a small raise..
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 05:18 AM
I don't think flop is a WA/WB situation at all.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumaterminator
I don't think flop is a WA/WB situation at all.
Care to explain? Board looks very dry.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:09 AM
Villains can have worse Qs, and can also potentially continue or play back at you with pocket pairs (putting you on AK).

I think WA/WB is when you're never getting called by worse.

I do think we crush them badly very often, and of course are drawing near dead occasionally to sets.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:19 AM
I don't see WA/WB as a situation I wouldn't get called by worse..

Of course villain will play back with pocket pairs and worse Q's but trying to extract three streets of value with TPTK hands isn't a great recipe of success and by underrepping here I believe I will get lighter calls and playbacks on next streets.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:21 AM
I think not raising river here is leaving value on the table. With trips top kicker on this board, i am valueraising the river pretty much always and expecting to get called by QJ-Q10 or KQ a reasonable amount of the time.

Yes, he could have a set, but he could also have worse Q or playing back at us with a pocket pair, and level himself to call it off on the river. Ive seen it happen before, lets put it that way
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumaterminator
Villains can have worse Qs, and can also potentially continue or play back at you with pocket pairs (putting you on AK).

I think WA/WB is when you're never getting called by worse.

I do think we crush them badly very often, and of course are drawing near dead occasionally to sets.
Disagree on ur definition of wawb. Actually ur last sentence is what wawb means.

Depending on villain my mom said plan on that flop can be b/b/b, b/c/b and very rarely c/b/b.

As played river I am torn between small raise for value or just call. Never folding.
River line check with trips? Quote
04-28-2014 , 09:53 AM
Grunch:

I'd raise to 300 or so pre flop. For value.
Bet the flop. Plently of worse Queens and some middle pocket pairs that we can get value from. And maybe even some gut shots that are there since we made it so cheap pre flop.

Turn seems fine.

River. I'm torn between raise folding and calling. The problem is that I'm not sure what he would do with KQ/QJ here. Like, would he ship them in? Or would he just flat with them? If we think that he never ships it in with KQ then we can think about raising here for value. But if he ever ships them in, then when he ships it puts us into awkward spot where we aren't sure where we are and we will sometimes end up folding out the best hand on the river.

I think in the end I min raise the river and fold if he shoves.
River line check with trips? Quote

      
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