Just wondering what your thoughts on river Donking is. In this situation, what does it represent.

(I've been at the table for 20 mins, so no reads, other than my opponent is a reg)

Full Ring (5/5)

I'm on the BB

5x limpers and I check with 3s3c

Pot is 3d2c3h

I bet $15 into $25 pot and c/o reg raises to $50. I call.

Turn is 4h

I check, he bets $75 into $125. I call.

River is 8c

I donk $200 into $275. He tanks/folds.

My thoughts on the turn was to either raise the turn, or to call and then C/R the river. I actually ended up donking. I didn't want to risk getting checked behind on the river. I knew after I donked that I should have just raised the turn and shoved the river if he called.

As played, what does my donk actually look like. Is it obvious I'm strong? Could it be a missed draw in this situation?
Anything else?

Looks like you have 8s full to me. If you had checked it looks like 7s

What missed draw do you have that you are representing? To me, your hand looks like a strong hand that was afraid your opponent was going to check behind. Other opponents may be less sophisticated to recognize that, but the size of your bet looks strong.

Welcome to the forum. I suggest you read the stickies at the top of the forum page to learn some basic rules about posting that will get you better answers to your questions.

It would have been better if you had not posted your hand and the final action. You'll get more unbiased opinions. In this case, it doesn't matter much. A donk bet of this size on the river means a big hand.

I agree with Venice that your sizing indicates a big hand.

The crappy thing about this spot is that V is likely checking behind on the river with most of his range. You're stacking 22, 44, and 88 but those are a relatively small portion of his range. That said, if you can somehow narrow V down to only full houses, then betting huge makes tons of sense as most low stakes players are incapable of folding full houses. This is called a "Zeebo" play. Also, if you were attempting a Zeebo, you could overbet the pot and get called or raised.

I'd maybe consider donking for around 1/2 pot or so. That will get called by a larger portion of V's range. After all, getting called for $140 is better than not getting called for $200.

Not sure why you donked here.

In my personal observations, big river bets tend to come from monsters or air and not much in between.

You bet-called the flop, check-called the turn and fired on the river.

So, if I need to label that line a monster or air, where am I going?

You are an unraised BB so your range is the entire deck.

You lead on a paired trash flop with a half pot bet into 4 or 5 limpers (you either had 5 limpers or $25 pot, but not both).

55, 66, 77, or even two overs feels pretty good here and pot raises and you call.

The turn completes two gut shot straight draws, but did you call a pot raise out of position with a gut shot?

You check and V tests you again with a half pot bet.

V is trying to steal or thinks you both have over pairs to this tiny board and neither of you knows who is ahead.

You call.

V is losing possible hands for you. Over pair? 3?

River comes and V is provably looking for check-check, but you now fire a heavy half pot bet.

With the choices being monster or air, that line says monster much more than it says air.

I might even get away from 22 there. Maybe.

In a spot like this, I think it's best to 3bet the flop. We know villain doesn't have a three so we gotta play it like a big leveling war. When we flat the flop raise, any future aggressive action will look very strong (turn/river raise or donk). A 3bet on the flop looks strong, but it could also be interpreted as "I think you're full of sh*t, let's play chicken." Make it $140 I'd say. The idea is to make him spaz out 4bet with an overpair, straight draw, or even air. I think 22 will often ship because it will be scared of basically every card in the deck giving you a higher boat if you have a 3.

I didn't really think of 3b the flop. I think you make a strong argument for it. Especially that me showing any future aggression will look very strong.



As played on the flop, facing a turn bet, what line is best?
Also, what if I had only donked $100 into $275 on the river?

Note: What's the effective stack? I'll assume full stacks for everyone
PF: OK
F: (6) handed. Pot is $25. SPR is 20. Are we first to act (is the SB in the hand?). When we lead out into 5 players here, we are pretty much saying that we have a 3, 22, a small overpair (44-88) or maybe 45 (you likely don't do this with a single 2 and there is not flush draw on the board). This bet is strong.
T: Heads up. Pot is $125. We've got $445 left. We'd like to build the pot to get our stack in. Here, I would check raise. When he bet's $75, I'd c/r to $200. Right now, there are no big cards out there, so he may call with a hand like 88 or 99.
R: Heads up. Pot is $275. We've got $370 left. When we donk almost 3/4P, that is strong. From V's point of view, we donked the flop into 5 people and then called his raise, then we called his 60%P bet on the turn, then we donk out 3/4P on the river; that is strong.

+1 to everything said, but knowing the effective stacks here shapes the betting sequence and sizing a bit as Below Zero noted.

I would try out the 1/2 pot bet OTR as suggested before cutting it to 1/3. depending on if we get called or not.

With the limited history here, have we had any big showdowns? I think it is possible that V may bet this river if he doesn't have a pair, but has two overs with the draw.

How certain are we that V has showdown value here? A CO range in a limped pot is pretty wide here and it is hard to imagine he connected with this board.

I liked the way you played it b4 the river. It looks like you're on a draw with a 2 U paired on the flop or 4 that paired on the turn. He doesn't know you much and/or may think he can blow you off your hand. He certainly has something, or is attempting to rep he does.

Does anyone like the idea of betting $50 on the river into a $275 pot, in an attempt to rep it as a blocking bet? My thought is to send a msg that we are trying to get a showdown & hope V follows thru with attempting to blow H off his hand?

Pre-flop is the only street you payed fine. 3-bet the flop small and plan to lead turns around 2/3 of pot (depends on stack sizes). He can continue on flop with tons of overpairs, clubs, 54, wheel draws+, etc. - all but straight flush draws are drawing dead.

Sp re-pop the flop, big bet on the turn.

You could even raise flop enough to ship some turns.

Sure you have a monster, but there's no need to slow play it on a board where he's going to have plenty of different hands that pay you off. Further, the hands that pay you off early in the hand (over pairs to the board, flush draws, straight draws) will not pay you off later when scare cards come out or when draws whiff.

there is no flush draw on flop...

We checked in the big blind, I am pretty sure Villain is folding overpairs as our hand obviously contains a 3 in it once we bet/3B.

IMO 3Betting flop is not getting much action except from 45 and 22.

You're right, I actually misread board and action.

That said, I don't like OP's line. Bet/call flop and check turn will so often win us the minimum. Having the turn check through and getting to the river with $100 in the pot seems terrible. Hands that might pay us off more on the flop (say 44-88, 45) are going to look a lot worse on so many turn cards.

I could definitely see a flop check/raise. If the flop checks through, that's OK - turn cards can hit people and get you 2 streets of value multi-way. And if someone bets the flop, you can put in a check/raise and then lead turns.

I think check/raising is best here.

And if you do bet, I like a bet/small 3-bet facing this min-raise.

Sure, it might look like you have a 3. But you're playing oop, and you do have a 3, and you want to build a huge pot. Sure, it's tougher to build a huge pot oop, and your range becomes more obvious sometimes - and that's actually what went wrong in this hand. OP didn't get chips into the pot, and come river, he leads out for $200, which is obviously a monster.

On this board, the best street to start building that pot is on the flop - that's when middling one-pair hands can very easily peel raises and where draws think they have the most equity.

do a literal click back, make it $75 on the turn. then evaluate from there.

on the flop I was thinking:

Betting out looks weaker then C/R. From villains perspective, why would I bet out with such a strong hand?
I decided to just call his raise as it is almost a sure thing that he will bet the turn. I would say, him being a reg, that he could have A2s, K2s, 22, 45 and most likely a small pocket pair (22-99) (he didn't open limp, but limped along. This hand range makes sense to me)
I think if I raise here, I risk having him fold his pocket pairs and A2/K2

For me, when he bets $75 into $125 on the turn, my options are to raise or to call and hope to c/r the river, or to call and donk the river.

On the river, I believe, that as played until this point I should have just donked $100 or even a bit less and hope it looks like a blocking type bet (someone said $50 which actually sounds good to me). I think if he has 22, or made a full house on the turn or river, he raises and we get it all in anyway. He may also make a call with the good price on the river with 2 pair. I think the rest of his range is an auto check-back at this point if I don't bet.

I'm really happy with the replies and has given me much to think about.
I think there are many different lines here that can be justified.

you need to keep in mind that your in the big blind in a limped pot. On a paired board once you call the turn you look super strong. If your opponent is a good reg like you say he's not likely to call w/ anything less than 22/A5.

Considering he raised the flop and then didn't shut down ott I think you must check the nuts and let him barrel again. it's unlikely that he bluffs here but you need to give him the chance. He'll also value bet all straights and boats in which case you can c/r.

When you lead the river your hand looks like an absolute monster and you let him fold some hands he may have bet. (though in this spot he's checking back a ton regardless)

It's hard to get three streets w/ quads. it basically has to be a massive cooler, especially against a good villain on this board, and you being in the blind. Everything's working against you.