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River decision with set against LAG River decision with set against LAG

12-09-2011 , 09:15 PM
Table: $1/$2, 7-handed. Table is comprised of casino regs who are generally quite passive/loose preflop (40/5'ish by my estimation). Very fit-or-fold postflop, though by 'fit', i mean almost any piece of the flop. Exception to this is villain, who is a young asian dude, certainly not an online grinder. Very LAGy (about 40/30'ish) and is prone to making moves (c/r's flops with air, c/r's rivers with made hands turned to bluffs). Table has been running for around 8 hrs, effective stacks with villain are around $700 (350BB).

Previous history: I've playe with villain in one previous session where ive established that he is quite LAGy. In one hand last session i raised 3x pre with JJ and was HU with villain to a flop of 742r. I took a b/b/b line on turn T and river T. Villain c/r'ed my small vbet on river and after i folded showed A4o.
In another hand this session villain 3b me pre with AQs, i flatted 3b OOP with AKs (at the time i felt it was more +EV to flat than 4b, later on i have seen villain flat 4bets with as weak as AJs). Villain value-owned himself on A-high board after i c/c'ed 3 streets.

Hand: Villain (starts with $850) straddles to $5, Hero (starts with $700) is UTG with 88, raises to $15. SB calls, BB calls, Villain calls.

Flop: J86 (pot: $60)

Action checks to hero who bets $45. Only villain calls.

Turn: 2c (pot: $150)

Villain checks. Hero bets $85. Villain calls.

River: Q (pot: $320)

Villain bets $175. Hero?
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-09-2011 , 09:22 PM
I assume the decision is whether to call or raise. I'd probably just call, as the only way raising is good is if he has a hand like QJ (and even then he could fold to a raise). If you raise you open yourself up to losing more money to T9 or maybe even backdoor clubs (there are some straight draws that could have backed into a flush, like 97 or 75).

I think most (though probably not all) of the hands you beat here are busted straight draws, to be honest.

Also, though you didn't say, I would have bet more on the turn.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-09-2011 , 09:41 PM
Just call.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-09-2011 , 10:19 PM
Call. Looks like a decent bluff/2 pair opportunity. If he has JJ, tell him nice hand.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-09-2011 , 10:31 PM
definitely just call. i agree with vernon. if he is that laggy 97cc and 75cc are totally within his range. although QJ, 910 is most likely since he just flats the turn.
you can pretty much eliminate qq or jj from his range, you would have heard from him long before the river.

i also agree that you bet too little on the turn...that bet should have been more like $120...
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-09-2011 , 11:23 PM
It would be better if you didn't use 'LAG' to refer to an aggrodonk. This is pretty clearly a player who plays primarily for the testosterone rush of seeing other people fold big pots (as opposed to you; you play primarily for money).

We are extremely deep here, so the raise/call decision depends on whether or not he will call off the rest of his stack with two pair, which he has a lot here.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 01:12 AM
Due to how deep we are, I just call. Raising against thid V could suck, as we can't r/f.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 02:01 AM
Calling is best option here IMHO.

I'm a little concerned that Villain didn't go for the same c/r move he's used previously - this makes me think he's actually got something a little stronger than a random pair this time.

Still, you have to call. If he flips random clubs or T9, well, that's poker.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 02:14 AM
Your betsizing on the turn is waay too small.

120.... AT LEAST. This is the kind of spot you can make pot/overpot sized bets against people who don't fold.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 10:53 AM
Call. Everything else looks fine
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 11:11 AM
Wow, so no-one is considering folding? Against a TAG'ish player whos capable of sickness, id probably snap call and not think about it (less combos of legit flushes), however this guy can have any combo of clubs, as well as straight draws. I feel he is more inclined to c/r bluffs on the river. Very rarely is he valuebetting worse imo (2pairs, though he might c/c them a fair % of the time).
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 12:46 PM
Any club draw is completely back door. What kind of clubs could be calling flop? Only if it's overs, I would assume, which leaves exactly, one combo, AcKc. 9T is much more likely, but not likely enough that I'm going to fold a set for a half-pot bet.

I'd expect to see JQ more often than a straight by far. Then other 2-pair, 66 with FPS, followed by air/near air, and only then Flush.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 01:25 PM
Bet bigger on the turn, call river.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielKim
Wow, so no-one is considering folding? Against a TAG'ish player whos capable of sickness, id probably snap call and not think about it (less combos of legit flushes), however this guy can have any combo of clubs, as well as straight draws. I feel he is more inclined to c/r bluffs on the river. Very rarely is he valuebetting worse imo (2pairs, though he might c/c them a fair % of the time).
So when you call down on a river, you're looser against TAGs, and tighter against LAGs? This seems completely counter-intuitive :-s
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 03:56 PM
would never fold, not even an option, you has a set
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 04:22 PM
Turn bet sizing way too small. Like Ike said, $120 at least.

Just call river as played.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 05:22 PM
Crying call although he has a low flush or the straight
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielKim
Wow, so no-one is considering folding? Against a TAG'ish player whos capable of sickness, id probably snap call and not think about it (less combos of legit flushes), however this guy can have any combo of clubs, as well as straight draws. I feel he is more inclined to c/r bluffs on the river. Very rarely is he valuebetting worse imo (2pairs, though he might c/c them a fair % of the time).
I commented that I didn't like him just firing out on the river instead of c/r move. However, you're getting nearly 3:1 and there are a lot of hands you beat that he could be holding as well - primarily 66 and QJ

Is he good enough to play off his image and bet when he hits a disguised monster (but not good enough to c/r both his monsters and his bluffs?) Do you have a strong enough read to know he'll only do this with made hands? If the answer to either is "no" then I think you have to call, even if it sucks for you when he rolls over a winner.
River decision with set against LAG Quote
12-10-2011 , 09:51 PM
If he on a level good enough to represent hands without having them its a call. If he is a level 1 chase draws to river then bet when hit type of player probably a fold, T9 and 8x or 6x possibly. If he had Jx a c/r would actually be a cool line to take on this river
River decision with set against LAG Quote

      
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