1/2 game.

UTG+1 Hero ($1100), getting hit in the face with the deck. Raising frequently but not showing down much. What I’ve shown down has been solid (AK, QQ, TT, either hitting flops or flopping overpairs).

HJ Villain (covers), generally TAG-ish if he’s opening the pot (won’t open limp, open-raises regularly in position). He seems to have opened up his pf calling range vs hero specifically. Last several raises he’s called in position vs hero and folded to c’bets, despite hero’s raises being more than the table average pf. I think he’s waiting to trap me since we’re the two big stacks, and I’ve been raising a lot pf. Versus other players this V has shown a fit/fold tendency, often making hero calls with as little as top pair on scary boards where he’s bet into on multiple streets. Will bet when checked to. Doesn’t raise much overall.

UTG folds, hero raises to $15 with AcKd. MP calls, Villain calls.

Flop ($45) is 8d8h3d. Hero bets $25. MP folds. Villain calls.

Turn ($95) Jd. Hero checks. Villain bets $40. Hero calls*

*I’m 100% sure my turn call is bad here, for a variety of reasons, but my main question is the river…

River ($175) Ad. Hero checks. Villain bets $80. Hero…

Flop: Since he's TAG it's hard for him to have 3x so it's down to 8x, pocket pairs like 44-77, 99-TT, Ax.

Turn: Bet the turn, it's a good barrel card to get villain off pocket pairs that have equity against us. Plus we have picked up a flush draw and we block the A

River: We make the nut flush so I'm guessing you're either wondering how much we should x/r for or you're wondering if we're beat by a FH. He either has A8 or 33 to beat us, the question becomes, will he value bet a worse flush. If we x/r, I think we only get called by better since x/r bluffs on the river are extremely rare. Our hand is way too strong to turn into a bluff, and a bluff won't be successful because he's never folding a FH. So I call here.

Raise fold 200ish

I can see just calling on the river, because I don't know what hands call that don't beat you, and if he raises, you have to fold.

Probably would have bet the turn, but the check here and check on the river might have made you a little more money.

Why raise? Do you really think a TAG player is:

1) calling a PFR with Qx or Qx (i.e. Q9 or QT)
2) value betting the river with the Q-high flush, then calling a check/raise on a four-flush, paired board?

A raise only gets called by better. We're never getting a full house to fold. I'm open to seeing how/why I'm wrong, but you'd have to give me a pretty convincing argument.

Edit: Shoot, I might have talked myself into a c/f on the river. Is the typical LLSNL player betting the Qd either for value or as a bluff?

OTT, b/f isn't bad, I like that card to double barrel. Medium-low pp's are folding and some worse no pair hands can float otf. I also like c/f'ing. Check/call is bad, you shouldn't be in this river spot.

You were getting 3.37:1 ott so I don't really have a problem with your c/c line. Otr you can ride off AA and probably JJ because with your image he prob 3! Them PF too. Otr I prob make a small raise but it's real Read dependent. I know guys that refuse to lay down a queen high flush but v may not be that way. Hell I know guys that would call $100 on top otr with x8. I think you have to raise like $100ish and fold to a raise. $80-100 is small enough to tempt a call by worse and induce a raise by most boats.

I know I'm gonna take heat for this view but im talking from my experience with fishy players. If this guy is good then just flat. Like I said, VERY read dependent.

100% agree with DeathCab. Make him show first get info and muck if beat showdown if not. I dont think you can ever fold here and raising is so thin, especially this deep.

I'm b/f all three streets here.

a) i'm barreling this turn and river

b) once you check the turn, might as well play bluff catcher...

if he has a naked 8 he bets more on the turn. cant see him betting so little with a FH

probably going for thin value with hands like Ax, Jx, maybe has a diamond with them.

call, he never calls a raise with worse.

edit: the title of this thread is WAY misleading. i was expecting to see a 1k BB pot!

I actually would prefer to bet fold the river. I probably just call at this point as we have no clue what villain has and he is probably smart enough not to pay off a check raise with worse.

If think it's pretty close between call and raise/fold. There are not too many worst hands he call with, but there are not too many boats he can have too. And I think you can assume he's pretty much never 3bet/bluffing the river.
When in doubt I tend to raise and give them a chance to make a frustrated call with 8x or a turned flush. And even if they fold, we've just created some history for future hands.

Thanks for the replies. I've been spending a lot of time thinking about how to apply bet/fold and raise/fold lines. I'm typically either too timid to bet for thin value, or too afraid to be able to fold to their re-raises.

I ended up check/raising the river to $200. He thought for about five seconds and called. He had 33 for the flopped boat.

To those saying he wouldn't call with worse, I'm not sure I agree. I specifically saw him hero call with one-pair type hands on scary boards. He would call 8x here I think. Same with weaker flushes. Checking the turn here was designed to let him over-value hands like this so if I did hit the flush I could get more value out of it. Is this wrong?

I think my big mistake here was valuing the king-high flush draw as highly as I did. So many of his flushes/flush draws on the turn would have the Ad, and that just destroys my value.

It's curious too that so few included 33 in his range, since I specifically said that he'd seemed to widen his pf flatting range in response to my aggression. This also let me range him on more 8x hands (98s, 87s, T8s), but I still included 33 in there.