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river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits

05-04-2015 , 02:53 AM
Prehand Descriptions
Villain 1: typical player at this level, plays too many hands, gets too attached to AK, have played with a lot and feel like I have a good feel for him.

Villain 2: very loose young guy, not a strong player. Earlier in the session Hero bet, check/call, check/call'd him with an overpair

Hero: tight, soliid

$1/2 NL (10 handed)
UTG ($200)
EP ($200)
EP+1($200)
MP V1($400)
MP+1 ($900)
MP+2 ($200)
CO V2($200)
Button($300)
SB ($200)
BB ($200)

Hero is dealt A K:

V1 limps, hero raises to $15, V2 calls, V1 calls

Flop ($45) QJ2

V1 checks, Hero bets $30, V2 calls, V1 folds

Turn ($105) 9

Hero checks, V2 checks

River T

Hero checks, V2 bets ($25), hero raises to $120
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 05:25 AM
So if he had 200 at the start, the raise essentially puts him all in. If you think he's a weak enough player to call it off with Kx it may be a good play but he has played this hand exactly how I'd expect an average player to play a flush draw.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 06:11 AM
Beyond horrible
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 07:55 AM
V as described was passive with over pairs. You went for the check raise when you rivered Broadway but expecting this player to bet hands worse than yours seems like a mistake. If you put him on a the flush draw, check call seems fine. If you want to make sure you get value, bet, planning to call or fold depending on the raise.
The way this hand played out, Vs range is most likely flushes so you're check raising into a hand that beats you. Not a fan of this play. Maybe he folds a small flush here (unlikely) but he could have Axs, easily.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchstreetfish
V as described was passive with over pairs..
I had the over pair. In that hand I bet flop, check/call´d turn and river and he had middle pair that he turned into a bluff.

In the hand in this thread I checked the river because I expected him to value bet, bluff a lot of hands.

When he bets $25, I don't think he has a flush and I decide to raise him. The question is how much. My line is strange and looks like a spazzy bluff. I think it gets called by a lone king, and eight, maybe two pair.

Maybe I bet too much, maybe a bet/fold on the river is a better line?

Edit: On the turn after I checked, Villian went for some chips, then saw me staring him down, and gave me a sheepish look and then checked.

Last edited by kookiemonster; 05-04-2015 at 03:32 PM.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:20 PM
Probably not c-betting in this spot.

Bet/fold the river $65 for value.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
Villain 2: very loose young guy, not a strong player. Earlier in the session Hero bet, check/call, check/call'd him with an overpair
What happened in this hand?
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig6565
So if he had 200 at the start, the raise essentially puts him all in. If you think he's a weak enough player to call it off with Kx it may be a good play but he has played this hand exactly how I'd expect an average player to play a flush draw.
Sorry. My description of Villian sucked. He is way more loose and aggressive than that. No way he only bets $25 here with a flush.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:23 PM
if you are going to check raise this river, you should just click it back...

You should probably just lead the river for 50$ to get called by a worse straight or other bluffcatchers
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
Probably not c-betting in this spot.

Me neither, normally. But V1 plays fit or fold and is scared of me, and I am way ahead of V2. Also, V1 bets out his top pair hands on the flop normally.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.M.O.U.
if you are going to check raise this river, you should just click it back...
This means all-in?
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 04:54 PM
Flop bet is gross to me on that board vs those V.

I don't know why you aren't betting the river to get value from Kx.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-04-2015 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
Flop bet is gross to me on that board vs those V.

I don't know why you aren't betting the river to get value from Kx.
This guy is betting his straight on river anyway, plus lots of trash
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-07-2015 , 05:17 PM
I'd prefer b/f the river for 1/2 pot or a little more.

As played, I don't think I'd bet so much. He's only calling with a flush when you put him all in. But if you bet $75 he can call with 2p, etc. I feel like most people would bet more than 1/4 pot on the river with a made flush. There for I want to make him make a crying call with hands we beat.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-07-2015 , 06:33 PM
What's your goal with the large reraise? Value or bluff?

So the good thing is that if the villain has a king high straight you can get a lot of value from him, the bad thing is that if he has a flush, you're valuing your self, as villain is probably not good enough to fold flushes.

Villain could also have bottom straight, 2 pair, single pair etc, which we also losing value when we raise so much. i.e. getting worse to fold and getting called by better.


Villain has $130 left after his bet. If we raise too much, we're pot committing ourselves to a reshove...

How about we reraise another $40 on top and re-evaluate to a shove. I like eeking out another 20 bb into our value range, and folding to a 45bb 3bet on the river, seems solid to me.

Really, if villain 3bet's all int, we're getting 325 : 90, and at this point, we have to have him have a flush less than 30% of the time, and I believe V is 3betting the river with a flush at least 1/3 of the time, which makes it's ok to fold. Save that 45bb for another pot my friend.

If villain isn't aggro at all we can easily fold, if villain is really aggro, we may have to call.

Last edited by abombthecoder; 05-07-2015 at 06:39 PM.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-07-2015 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
This means all-in?
no. means raise much less.

Lead out on the river for 60 to 75 or as much as you think he will call with Qx. You will probably get called light since you checked the turn.

He is only calling or raising your river c/r if he has a flush.

value bet that river for sure. You hit broadway so let him call with Qx since he will think you are weak.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-07-2015 , 08:37 PM
I'll join the chorus of boos here.

There's an obvious one-card straight on the board, and the frontdoor flush came in as well. He has bet, representing *at least* the one-card straight. You can beat that. Great. But your raise is overrepping your hand... turning it into a bluff, essentially. If he has a bare king here, it should be pretty easy for him to conclude, "crap, I guess this guy has the flush." You're rarely getting paid off by the bare king. You're almost never getting paid off by two pair or a set.

So, generally, you're going to make no extra profit when you have the best hand (because he'll fold) and you'll lose an extra ~$100 when you have the worst hand.

This is why leading for $60 or so is much better. If you lead, he can still decide to call with his straight, hoping for a chop.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-07-2015 , 08:56 PM
B/f river is correct move. As played - puke.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote
05-08-2015 , 02:20 AM
I don't mind you're check raise on the river with sizing tells,but your sizing pretty much narrows his range to what he thinks are butted hands and folds out all bluffs/ thin value,As played its either a bet/fold $75 on the river or check/call.If I took you're river line,I like a min raise,better than what you did.
river checkraise with nut straight when flush card hits Quote

      
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