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Relative Short-Stack Hand- Relative Short-Stack Hand-

02-05-2009 , 04:24 PM
Hero (BB): $59.00
UTG: $110.80
UTG+1: $93.90
MP1: $357.40
MP2: $414.00
CO: $150.65
BTN: $400.00
SB: $75.00

CO posts a big blind ($4)

Pre Flop: ($10.00) Hero is BB with Q:heart: A:heart:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $4, 2 folds, CO checks, 1 fold, SB calls $2, Hero raises to $12, 1 folds, CO calls $8 SB calls $8

Flop: ($36.00) Q:club: 3:club: 7 :spade:(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $27, CO calls $27SB , SB fold

Turn: ($90.00) 4:diamond:
Hero bets $20 all-in, CO calls $20

River: ($130) 9:club:

Hero turns over A:heart:Q:heart:(pair of queens) and loses
CO turns J:club:8 (flush) and wins.

It's a funny hand, because I lost a large hand before with in a set on set and I was short-stacked. The villan was obviously a fish, as he wasn't getting the odds on the flop to chase the flush. However, it raises an interesting question. Once I have bet 3/4 pot on the flop, I'm giving most hands decent odds on the turn when I go all in if they donk call the flop with a silly hand.

I was thinking that maybe a shove on the flop would have been better when it is garanteed (unless someone is slow playing (AA, KK, QQ, which would be stupid in most cases). My money would have equally been all-in when I was ahead, but I could have got the flop and not lost on the river.

Thoughts please
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-05-2009 , 08:56 PM
Push pre.
As played, push flop.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-05-2009 , 10:29 PM
what are you asking? you couldnt have gotten any more value.

results dont matter
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 09:18 AM
A nice alternative line would be chk, chk/call, chk/call, chk/fold.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 09:51 AM
think if all you could have lost if you bought in for more!
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novel20
A nice alternative line would be chk, chk/call, chk/call, chk/fold.
Rofl.

Seriously, push pre. If no, then push flop.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novel20
A nice alternative line would be chk, chk/call, chk/call, chk/fold.
I don't think this is a good line in any circumstance.

The question is more in the line of if it is better to make an oversized bet on the flop (ie. all-in in this case) or bet within the pot limit knowing that your bet on the turn is going to be small enough to give most hands decent odds if they donk call the flop with drawing hand or an underpair.

If I was replaying the hand I would have pushed on the flop, in any cases I got my money in good when I was ahead and he sucked out, the final part is irrelevant.

I just wanted to get thoughts on different lines and overbetting the flop.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 02:10 PM
Novel is leveling. The correct line is to push pre and pick up the dead money.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 02:15 PM
technically, you got more value, since the money you put in on the turn has more equity.

Your current line gets more value if you think the players will call the flop with a 7, 3, flush draw, or other pocket pair if you bet 2/3 or 3/4, but not if you shove.

Of course the villian will hit 2 pair, trips, flushes, some of the time on the turn. So if you don't want to have to shove the last 20 on the turn, when you will behind sometimes, then just shove the flop. It's so dependent on your opponent, if they are going to call the flop shove with any pair or draw, just get it innnnn.
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote
02-06-2009 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O0Brian0O
technically, you got more value, since the money you put in on the turn has more equity.

Your current line gets more value if you think the players will call the flop with a 7, 3, flush draw, or other pocket pair if you bet 2/3 or 3/4, but not if you shove.

Of course the villian will hit 2 pair, trips, flushes, some of the time on the turn. So if you don't want to have to shove the last 20 on the turn, when you will behind sometimes, then just shove the flop. It's so dependent on your opponent, if they are going to call the flop shove with any pair or draw, just get it innnnn.
Finally an answer worth reading

Ty
Relative Short-Stack Hand- Quote

      
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