is there a big difference between the 2009 version and the 2011?

each chapter has an addendum that corrects or expands on some of the logic from 2009

I got burned by this the other day. I couldn't decide if his all-in was a total bluff or not when the flush came, and he was super staring me down doing all he could to radiate strength. Decided it was strong-means-weak and made the call. Of course he had the nut flush.

Yeah, sometimes you can't tell. I have also been burned a lot of times by this.

Honestly I've kinda given up on tells, I've been burned so much. I might use at if I'm really really on the fence, but even then I'm not sure it's helped.

The only consistently reliable one for me is "Speech = Monster"

You should learn pacifying tells, very reliable.

So people are saying the book is bad.
But not listening to one of the first things mentioned in the book?

A tell by itself means nothing, you need to establish a baseline first before you can rely on any tell you spot.

thanks.
i found the 09 hopefully its not materially outdated

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever made a decision based on a "tell". Although I guess it is possible I've picked up on something subconsciously that has swayed a decision.

GcluelesstellsnoobG

In his book Elwood says that tell usually represents strength. He explains why on pages 149-151 (he doesn’t say it’s 100% though, of course). On page 150 he writes “there’s a big misconception that players who stare at you are probably bluffing.”

I think his books are better than any other books I’ve seen on the topic. However there is some inconsistent stuff because people are different and like any book on body language would say, it helps a lot to study the person you’re trying to read.

Some of the best stuff I’ve seen from him is in his videos. And in any of his books/videos when he talks about a particular tell he explains why players will do it. Sources I’ve seen from other authors don’t do this nearly as well.

I think I got burned more often listening to stuff from Mike Caro.

What are pacifying tells.

When someone needs comfort. Sometimes they hug themselves, sometimes they stroke their arm. One time a guys girlfriend was stroking his shoulders and he was accepting it.

Basically, the stress of a bluff is so bad they require comfort. Once you understand it, it is very hard to fake.

Usually, the tell will be in a cluster.

This is so wrong ...
For a lot of players, including myself, the "stress" of a huge value bet looks exactly the same as the stress of a huge bluff.

I often pick up chips as if about to call a big river bet. If they start to turn their cards over or start talking to you then that's a major tell of weakness. A certain percentage of the time they'll even fold.

While I don't see the pacifying tell often, it has proven very reliable. I learned it from the book "Read em and reap". Again, when it appears, it's usually in a cluster.

That said, I will grant that there are tell similarities between monster hands and stone-cold bluffs. That similarity vexed me for a long time and I found the lie detector to be in the cluster.

I find it funny when someone tries that on me. I just assume my "I've bet and am waiting for you" position and ignore them. Had a guy get so frustrated when I didn't react to his probing that he showed me his hand and shoved on me while I had the nuts.

What is this book?
And does it apply to 5 card plo?

Tom Chambers "Live Full Ring PLO" book, looks like it's $300? Can't remember if it was cheaper then, or if I misremember the price. It applies somewhat, but I don't recall it talking too much about it

Kinda hard to do in a friendly home game

You say this as if you see players trying this move on a regular basis. I've been using this move for about 20 years and hardly ever see anyone try it intentionally to induce tells. Combined with asking questions such as "Do you want me to call?" or "will you show if I fold?" or "did you make a flush then?" and you can add substantially to your overall win rate. As a final ploy you can follow up with looking like you're about to toss your cards in and look to see if your opponent looks relieved. But most 'pros' just toss their hand away without making the slightest attempt to induce a tell - a massive hole in their games if you ask me.

People who rely on live tells in LLSNL are really cute.

They stare at you like a hawk, then they make their incorrect decisions.

God forbid, one person's TPTK is another person's quads.

This is the books thread, not the tells thread. Please stop with the derail.

Take me to the river by Peter Alson is an enjoyable read.

Not a book on strategy, tells, bet sizing, etc.
A book about one mans journey in life, dating/marriage and his experience with online poker and one summer at the wsop

I think we can all relate to poker, dating, life.

I highly recommend giving this book a read.

^ sounds interesting, might buy it some time in the future